....while the poor American Republicans are little fluffy pink bunnies, that were all the time warning from misdeeds of American Dems - and never, ever came to the idea to constantly decrease taxes for the super-rich, promising this would increase the overall wealth; never ever established the Fox News; and never ever entered business deals with the FSB....?
....while it's irrelevant that the Republican Bush Sr. not only lowered the taxes for the super-rich, but also unleashed entire gangs of greedy idiots upon the crumbling USSR, and left the FSB money-launder savings of the Soviet Communist Party in the USA - thus empowering such like Pudding and creating all the antagonism that, ultimately, led to this war?
The attack on children's hospitals is the quintessence of the Douhet doctrine, the whole essence of which is to cause psychological breakdown, firstly, of society, and as a consequence, influence state policy, force the authorities to capitulate. This is terrorism in its purest form. Douhet proposed bombing entire cities, but nowadays it is easier to bomb the most vulnerable points.
for every questionable situation he goes straight to "you lie"/"no firm facts"/"lets talk about UA mistakes" options. No chance to hear any truth or criticism of Ru authorities from him
Up front, if you continue online psychoanalysing me, you're going to end like all the others who tried that earlier times.
Namely: if you're as clueless about me as you are, then it's better to ask. Because, if you ask me a question, I'll answer, and that way you are going to know who is my 'old friend' and whether that's about 'freedom of speech' or not. But, unless you do so, you're just another idiotic troll, wasting my time.
So, and now get lost from here before I really ban you - because it's easier and quicker to do so than answering your 'commentary'.
Well, as per attack on Okhmatdyt hospital, ideed there's a strong debate about misguided NASAMS missile. I post couple of references that contain photo and video, so, it's up to you to decide the righteness of the claim.
Regarding deliberate targeting of hospital/kindergarden/supermarkets, my personal imho that's not true. The reason is very cynical and in the meantime rational. For Russian authorities "external image" of the war is very important. Fighting nazis and deliberately targeting civilians? It's impossible "to sell". There are no idiots in Kremlin and Genshtab.
This, of course, by no means exlude acceptance of collateral damage. Roughly, if the civilian perished during suucceessful operation that is his/her problem, but in same time noone will target civilians deliberately and, if possible, they will be saved or assisted. That's cruel but true reality.
Yesterdays attacks hit important machinery works, while hits on non-military infrastructure could be explained by 3 reasons:
1) Debris of downed cruise missiles
2) misguided SAMs
3) wrong targeting (will not surprise me at all)
I propose to wait a bit and wait for more photos/data/investigations.
Anyway, yesterday's attack only confirmed mine many times repeated words: UA claims of downed cruise&ballistic missiles are heavily inflated, especially stories of Patriots taking down Kinzhals/Iskanders.
1/Fckin funny and miserable concept. most of your propaganda gens admit it was Kh101 missile: Voyevoda, Fighterbomber (if i am not mistaken) etc. So, be strong - take responsibility for that. AlexParker wrote even more sincerely - lets hit all those mommies with kids outside with a Kindzhal missile, what a perfect opportunity. so, STFU about SAMs finally.
2/ So, all works were hit directly, all civilian buildings - by SAMs, debris etc. - whatever bshitz. Do I understand you right? Btw, which works exactly were hit? any firm confirmations, or official blahblah about secret meeting of NATO gens in Okhmatdyt?
3/ It is pure war crime committed- none collateral damage. Even official Moscow doesn’t tell such idiocy.
4/ Better concentrate yourself on official Ru with its "all downed", "all missed", "burning grass" and similar reports. On Sunday "burning grass" burned out half of southern Voronezh oblast.
Otherwise, there's only one video showing a missile hitting the hospital. If you could give me a ref. on discussion that it's a cruise missile not a SAM, I guess, everyone will be grateful.
As per MOD confirming targeting hospital, sorry, not serious, all official RU sources (including MOD) cite UA SAM.
Don't get me wrong, I am not ruling out a possible unintentional hit on civilian infrustructure. Artyom works are situated in the city of Kiev right among civilian houses and business towers. So, not only SAM but a cruise missile could go astray. What I challenge and argue is the deliberate targeting of civilian infrustructure. Take my most synical explanation for that: tell me any serious ground for that? What is the use? How Kremlin will benefit from hitting civilians, kids, doctors?
P.S. Tom, you posted photos of KH-101 flying towards Artyom factory, whilst I posted refs to presumable SAM
What do you benefit from always excusing Russian behavior? According to you, it's never their fault no matter how many times the behavior is repeated. You are predictable and that's not to your credit.
The simple fact is that Russia is responsible for every death in this war, regardless of how it happened.
some sentences below you are writing about Artem Works "situated in the city of Kiev right among civilian houses and business towers" - and that's true. Moreover there are some buildings that could clear identify AW.
On the footage from garbage propaganda channel Anna News there is only one building to see. As far as you have no triangulation of the operator - not a chance to identify place being hit.
There are at least two different videos of Russian Kh-101 hitting the hospital. One a bit clearer, showing rising cloud of smoke and debris after the explosion, and another one where the person filming ducks behind the wall after the explosion. These were both filmed from the buildings behind that blue-green skyscraper, but from different floors and with different zoom settings.
Again I ask my question, what data would it take for you to change your mind? You Ask for more data, But what data would make you change your mind? You didnt answer last time. And yet you happily believe Toms criticism of the Ukrainian claims… that fits with your world view obviously. Well, more data will come, and you will reject it. But you repeatedly Ask of motivation for targetting childrens hospitals. Very simple and to some degree logical: « We will make the whole society surr until you Ask for peace. We will kill all of you unless you submit. And the Western world is powerless/unwilling to really stand up to us.» It is not at all logical to see their motivation.
Yeah... and, now I've sorted out the stills, and added one of Kh-101s I drew (for my Tu-95MS-profiles, which you know well), and added it to the same still as posted on topwar.ru.
....to show you all, very clearly: it was a Kh-101, no AIM-120/NASAMS.
So, by side the PSU's BS-exaggerations. I'll get back to them: I've promised to do so. But, you guys might all want to start actually thinking objectivelly - instead of guessing and hoping for. Just one generation back, you were experts in that discipline: nowadays you're worse than the X-er generation.
I think a good explanation for the PSU over-claim tendency here is that debris from intercepts still does substantial damage. Just less total and more swiftly repaired than a direct impact from a warhead. AIM-120 warheads make lots of shrapnel and don't penetrate anything. Jets are fragile.
The reason for PSU's tendency to overclaim is the incompetence of specific commanders there.
This Russian strike on Kyiv of yesterday was clear evidence for that. Otherwise, there would have been no 5-7 Kh-101s striking the Artyom Works (alone).
A clue in this regards: since the last year, perhaps 3-4 Kh-101s have managed to penetrate the PSU's air defences of Kyiv - in total. But, now it was 10 or more, while the PSU is claiming all as shot down?
Tom, thank you for posting added photos. Then, to prove me finally wrong, could anyone tell me where the long wings on KH-101 (that stay perpendicular in the middle like on the photos of final dives to Artyom Works) gone on the photo of the missile that hit hospital?
It's not about proving _you_ 'wrong', but about keeping it factual.
The missile is seen from profile. Thus, the wings are very small, barely visible (along the centre of the missile). The Kh-101's wing is rather small in its total surface (as obvious from other photos I've posted).
My first question regarding the "important external image" would be: have you been on this planet in the last 3 years (or maybe more than 3, if we counted also Syria)? Russians regularly hit civillian targets on purpose; even they admit it, but they always say it was a legit military target for some invented reasons. The second: Russia's external image is important to whom? China maybe, and the Global South, who do not care anyway? Third: who do think is so stupid to buy your propaganda? "Russia doesn't hit civillan targets because its cares about its external image". LOL. But you are a Russian troll, so just ignore my questions.
Пошел на хуй, уибан. Понятно. Ебаный бот, ты смотри тут важничает что то строчит, ракета не наша, противоракета насамс с бч в 20 кг, млять ты шо сука совсем охуел, мы не вооюэм с мирняком, это все не мы, это пво, бла-бла. Тока реальность чуть другая. Хуевые освободители, города в щебень превращают. Сука как тебя пидара еще Том не забанил. Наверное меня забанит, что я матюкаюсь. Но тебе это нужно знать, еще раз вы реальные твари.
Поневоле вспоминается великий русский писатель, уроженец Киева М.А.Булгаков:
"А? Я позавчера спрашиваю эту каналью, доктора Курицького, он, извольте ли видеть, разучился говорить по-русски с ноября прошлого года. Был Курицкий, а стал Курицький… Так вот спрашиваю, как по-украински «кот»? Он отвечает «кит». Спрашиваю, «а как кит»? А он остановился, вытаращил глаза и молчит. И теперь не кланяется."
Когда человек с русской фамилией пишет белиберду на мове, это полный гротеск....
Юра, а ты нормально общайся. Не как рагуль, а как обычный образованный украинец (если ты, конечно, не ципсошный тролль). Тут не митинг на майдане, а форум о военных действиях. Общайся спокойно, в чем проблема? Мат и ругань - удел слабых. Ну попала ЗУР в госпиталь, бывает, промахнулась. Если я не прав, докажи ссылками или фото.
На хуй пошел, еще раз. Мне с тобой убийцей вежливо общаться. Фейки создает, что бы создать информационный шум, разные бредовые версии выдвигаете. Сколько вы конченых версий делали по МН17, ты думаешь уже забыли. Тварь попали по больнице, где дети с онгологией лечатся и пишет еще докажи. Почему я должен что то доказывать убийцам и те которые лгут. Приведу топ-10 вашей лжи:
1. Буча (версия кацапии - тела были подкинуты).
2. Удар по жд вокзалу в Краматорске в марте 2022 (Это были Точки-У , тракэктория падения Точек показало что оно прилетело с окупированной части Донецка).
3. Удар по роддому в Мариуполе (кацапы: там был склад Азова)
4. Сброс авиобомбы на Драмтеатр в Мариуполе (кацапы это не мы, это Азов, в итоге весь театр залили бетоном, так еще там какие-то сценки устраивают -тупо ублюдки)
5. Убийство в Оленье военнопленных Азова (кацапы: там Хаймарс, никакого с ООН говняного и красного креста не допустили)
6. Удар Х-22 по ТЦ в Кременчуге.
7. Удар фабами по Эпицентру в Харькове.
8. Удар ракетами по центру в Виннице по дому офицеров. (кацапы: там было собрание наемников)
9. В апреле 2024 удар по психбольнице в Харькове.
10. В июне 2024 удар по госпиталю в Харькове.
11. Подрыв Каховской ГЭС (кацапы это был хаймарс - пиздец)
12. Удар Х-22 по многоэтажке в Днепре.
13. Ил-76 сбитый в Белгородской областе (кацапы: там были военнопленные ВСУ, доказательства - тишина)
14. Сплошные удары фабами по Изюму, Буче, Ирпене, Мариуполь и т.д.
Я уже не привожу, то что вы творите с военнопленными: масовые казни, отрезания голов, а те кто возвращается с вашего ебучего плена, выглядят так как они вернулись с фашисткого концлагеря. И кстати кто тут еще фашисты.
И хорош тут рассказывать, что ви пидары не воююте с мирняком. Вы нация убийц, мародеров, насильников - просто гний.
Юра, надеюсь, что ты просто ципсошный тролль, а не психически больной. Уж больно плохо все с тобою. Рекомендую тебе, храбрец, записаться на фронт, а то каждый день по всей вiльной украине десятки ухилянтов насильно хватают в армию, а тут такой поцтриот на форумах пропадает.....
No idiots in the Kremlin or Genstab? Hah! Watching the map evolve these past 2.5 years is enough to prove their incompetence. They're as bad as the fools who run the Pentagon.
Good grief, even pro-Putin trolls are willing to admit their leaders are morons. The one thing we all have in common, ironically enough.
Sometimes it's necessary to call a spade a spade... but it's depressing how western leaders can't see all that you KEEP pointing out--or purposely don't want to see/do anything about it...
I'll 'never say never', but: alone the fact Bibi is Pudding's business-partner (not to talk about the fact both are pursuant to the same ideology of the rule by oligarchy) is making it near-impossible.
How accurate are these missiles? Have the Russians demonstrated the ability in the past to precision hit targets with them? My gut tells me russia would like to hit the correct target and they’re fired at the correct coordinates of the Ukrainian HQ but in reality they just land wherever they want in the general vicinity of the target…?
Theoretically they are more then enough accurate to hit such large targets as Artyom Works with 80% of the missiles. Making a rebate to their inclination towards boasting, I've expected to see about 50% of the missiles hit the targets instead of 80%. In practice - as far as I know, the Artyom Works actual workshops, to pick an opportune example, were never hit at least before yesterday. Instead, the Russians damaged the neighboring residential and commercial office buildings (one of them - 2 times), a labor union library, nearby commercial storehouses and a pizza service. I don't know what to think about it.
What also makes me ask myself questions like "WTF?!" is that yesterday strike hit 3 different maternity and children hospitals, wich is quite unlikely if it's an accident.
1/ Artem works were already hit 2-3 times back in 2023. Once causing bad damages. Yesterday it was hit by 1.5 missiles (same as damaged Domino building)
2/ Noway it was an accident - to hit 2 unique hospitals at once. Nearest possible target is Ministry of transport - like 1.0km away from Okhmatdyt. So, even Kh22 would not miss so much, not to talk about Kh101 having hit it.
Artyom Works was hit, yet not it's actual workshops (before yeaterday; I wasn't there for the last days), as far as I know. Some administrative buildings were damaged, yes (the main checkpoint, the labor union library, maybe some other), yet the only damage of the actual workshops I know is several window frames of the highest store of the oldest workshop burned from the nearby hit debris (the missile that hit a new-built residential high-rise on the opposite side of the street).
up to 60% its facilities are situated not on the ground, you know) I have been there many times, so to make AW really unfunctional Ru would need some other staff as Kh101s.
Unfortunately, main hit was too close to Domino building... a friend of mine has/had an apartment there
The majority of the hits you've counted are very likely actually debris - I don't think even these sick sociopathic blockheads would target regular residential buildings with long-range precision missiles. So, the problems are:
1. The lack of long-range SAMs to shot down cruise missiles on their route instead of near the targets.
2. The lack of radars to fill the radar field on these routes and have enough spare radars to switch on while the 1st shift is relocating after being at work and spotted.
3. The lack of anti-drone AD weapons to shot down the Rusian drone spotters.
4. The lack of anti-ballistic missile coverage to ensafe at least some radar positions from the Russian ballistic missile strikes, because these are too fast to relocate the radars in time every day for years.
Ukraine have some means to solve the 3rd problem only. All other aspects need so much money we can hope for foreign military aid only.
There are always something more which can be done. Do more attacks on weapons storages in RU or fabrics. Yes it is not easy.
or for point 2 can be radar put and operate from train and in case of danger train can move fast. I think that before detection and hit you have at least 1-2 minutes and train can move up to 1 km in that time. They just need to find some good railway for it( not offen used).
or maybe it can be done by big trucks.
But without western help point 1 and 4 cannot be solved.
Trains and barges are already in use for these kinds of tasks. The problems are two:
1. The majority of the potential cruise missile routes are never approaching the not-offen-used railways or major rivers suitable for these migratory AD posts.
2. Both these solutions need low terrain, while the AD radars need high terrain instead, to have a decent overlook.
So, both these makeshift solutions are very limited.
And the heavy trucks - yep, possible... with the kind of R&D we have neither money no time for. Long range radars are not that compact to pack on trucks that easy and ready-to-go.
Hitting weapons storages and production centers is not even hard, but plainly impossible as a solution. That is, yes, it's possible to hit one or another such target, yet (currently for Ukraine) it's just impossible to destroy a significant part of these strike capabilities with these means. Ukrainian long-range drones are light and cheap, they cannot carry a powerful warhead of the kind cruise and ballistic missiles are designed for. They are also slow, lightly built (and so have nearly no penetrating capability), easy to shot down, vulnerable to EW, so the only case they are capable of destroying some strike capabilities is when the Russians make a dumb mistake. It happens quite often, yet it's still targets of opportunity, not any kind of systemic strikes.
Thanks for answering. The biggest to do is on west side, but also UA can and must improve what is doing now. Finding opportunities, find long range drone spotters, makes more fake target and less mistake as group on place for longer period. I know it is easy to say and much harder to do.
Did you at least try to zoom-in into some of the footage of the aftermath? For example, the image showing that white ambulance, which obviously wasn't hit by shrapnel from an air defense missile, but rather by bricks or parts of pavement propelled into air by the explosion of a big Russian cruuise missile. Please explain which air defense missile has shrapnell that would leave these dirtmarks https://www.online.ua/static/content/thumbs/1200x630/8/b0/26gtvc---c1200x630x50px50p--1c7a806c2307dcb7abbab29effa59b08.jpg but wouldn't pierce through the skin of the ambulance (just three pieces of debris had the energy to punch through). And the damage on the walls behind the ambulance clearly shows the same pattern.
I have seen several videos and read aprx. dozen articles about this subject with arguments for several versions... But based my experience and trying to use critical thinking, IMHO still believe, that in this case it is ukronaci inside job and pure propaganda, and doesnt matter if it is failure of AIM-120 or intention, doesnt matter. But every body can believe what he wants.. but still it is true, that Russia is aggressor and Ukraine is victim, but not innoccent victim...
Use your experience and critical thinking to explain to us poor inexperienced souls which type of air defense weapon would produce results similar to those seen on the Ohmatdit ambulance I posted. Not just American or Western weapon, feel free to find any kind of air defense missile in any army of the world that would leave such marks on a soft-skinned vehicle. Here's one more image of the same vehicle: https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/d/2/d2ab873-1.jpg
The orcs love attacking hospitals. They've also watched how Israel targets medical facilities to get people to flee a targeted area in Gaza. Same energy. All part of their theory of warfare.
Death to Douchehat and all his modern day disciples. Strategic bombing doesn't work. Never has, and never will. It's an excuse to do harm that feels good and makes the perpetrator look tough. It's the real reason Britain did area bombing in Germany and the USA firebombed Japan. Pure revenge without real military purpose.
LOL. Yeah, because the Soviets overruning Manchuria had nothing to do whatsoever with the ultimate decision to surrender. Japan’s Army would never contemplate letting every city in Japan get blown up if it could keep its little fiefdom in Manchuria.
Did you go to school in the USA? It shows in the ignorance of basic historical facts.
What a stupid fairy tale. Japan surrendered just days after the 2nd nuke was dropped. Losing a small portion of their colonial conquests doesn't matter at all compared to their home country getting annihilated. Cant believe you're delusional enough to write this crap
Thanks Tom, and good to point out that whether it's incompetence (I am doubtful in this case) or deliberate, it doesn't ultimately matter - they're putting civilians in harm's way needlessly. And I see that one Mr Kirby has been very quick to reiterate that Kyiv's hands are still tied from preventing this stuff >_<
....while the poor American Republicans are little fluffy pink bunnies, that were all the time warning from misdeeds of American Dems - and never, ever came to the idea to constantly decrease taxes for the super-rich, promising this would increase the overall wealth; never ever established the Fox News; and never ever entered business deals with the FSB....?
....then, mate, you didn't study the Bush Sr. and/or Clinton-Albright foreign politics carefully enough. ;-)
....while it's irrelevant that the Republican Bush Sr. not only lowered the taxes for the super-rich, but also unleashed entire gangs of greedy idiots upon the crumbling USSR, and left the FSB money-launder savings of the Soviet Communist Party in the USA - thus empowering such like Pudding and creating all the antagonism that, ultimately, led to this war?
The attack on children's hospitals is the quintessence of the Douhet doctrine, the whole essence of which is to cause psychological breakdown, firstly, of society, and as a consequence, influence state policy, force the authorities to capitulate. This is terrorism in its purest form. Douhet proposed bombing entire cities, but nowadays it is easier to bomb the most vulnerable points.
The GenStab in Moscow can't care less about any kind of 'doctrine' any more.
Since 24 February 2022, it's violating the quintessence of all of its own doctrine, first and foremost. This is intentional mass-murder.
for every questionable situation he goes straight to "you lie"/"no firm facts"/"lets talk about UA mistakes" options. No chance to hear any truth or criticism of Ru authorities from him
He has nothing to say.
Up front, if you continue online psychoanalysing me, you're going to end like all the others who tried that earlier times.
Namely: if you're as clueless about me as you are, then it's better to ask. Because, if you ask me a question, I'll answer, and that way you are going to know who is my 'old friend' and whether that's about 'freedom of speech' or not. But, unless you do so, you're just another idiotic troll, wasting my time.
So, and now get lost from here before I really ban you - because it's easier and quicker to do so than answering your 'commentary'.
So, you've decided to continue with online-psychoanalysis?
^Fascinating^... :rolleyes:
Ah consequences, how I miss that in todays society of excuses.
Well, as per attack on Okhmatdyt hospital, ideed there's a strong debate about misguided NASAMS missile. I post couple of references that contain photo and video, so, it's up to you to decide the righteness of the claim.
https://en.topwar.ru/245904-zasnjatye-kievljaninom-kadry-dajut-ponjat-chto-na-bolnicu-v-ukrainskoj-stolice-mogla-upast-raketa-norvezhskogo-kompleksa-nasams-vsu.html
https://t.me/The_Wrong_Side/17007?single
Regarding deliberate targeting of hospital/kindergarden/supermarkets, my personal imho that's not true. The reason is very cynical and in the meantime rational. For Russian authorities "external image" of the war is very important. Fighting nazis and deliberately targeting civilians? It's impossible "to sell". There are no idiots in Kremlin and Genshtab.
This, of course, by no means exlude acceptance of collateral damage. Roughly, if the civilian perished during suucceessful operation that is his/her problem, but in same time noone will target civilians deliberately and, if possible, they will be saved or assisted. That's cruel but true reality.
Yesterdays attacks hit important machinery works, while hits on non-military infrastructure could be explained by 3 reasons:
1) Debris of downed cruise missiles
2) misguided SAMs
3) wrong targeting (will not surprise me at all)
I propose to wait a bit and wait for more photos/data/investigations.
Anyway, yesterday's attack only confirmed mine many times repeated words: UA claims of downed cruise&ballistic missiles are heavily inflated, especially stories of Patriots taking down Kinzhals/Iskanders.
1/Fckin funny and miserable concept. most of your propaganda gens admit it was Kh101 missile: Voyevoda, Fighterbomber (if i am not mistaken) etc. So, be strong - take responsibility for that. AlexParker wrote even more sincerely - lets hit all those mommies with kids outside with a Kindzhal missile, what a perfect opportunity. so, STFU about SAMs finally.
2/ So, all works were hit directly, all civilian buildings - by SAMs, debris etc. - whatever bshitz. Do I understand you right? Btw, which works exactly were hit? any firm confirmations, or official blahblah about secret meeting of NATO gens in Okhmatdyt?
3/ It is pure war crime committed- none collateral damage. Even official Moscow doesn’t tell such idiocy.
4/ Better concentrate yourself on official Ru with its "all downed", "all missed", "burning grass" and similar reports. On Sunday "burning grass" burned out half of southern Voronezh oblast.
Come on: gimme a break with 'NASAMS missile'. There're at least two clear videos showing a Kh-101. Have now added a still from one of them.
That case is closed (and not only because of videos, but because the MOD in Moscow has publicly confirmed the targeting of the hospital).
There's a video of several Kh-101 hitting Artyom works.
https://t.me/anna_news/68417
Otherwise, there's only one video showing a missile hitting the hospital. If you could give me a ref. on discussion that it's a cruise missile not a SAM, I guess, everyone will be grateful.
As per MOD confirming targeting hospital, sorry, not serious, all official RU sources (including MOD) cite UA SAM.
Don't get me wrong, I am not ruling out a possible unintentional hit on civilian infrustructure. Artyom works are situated in the city of Kiev right among civilian houses and business towers. So, not only SAM but a cruise missile could go astray. What I challenge and argue is the deliberate targeting of civilian infrustructure. Take my most synical explanation for that: tell me any serious ground for that? What is the use? How Kremlin will benefit from hitting civilians, kids, doctors?
P.S. Tom, you posted photos of KH-101 flying towards Artyom factory, whilst I posted refs to presumable SAM
What do you benefit from always excusing Russian behavior? According to you, it's never their fault no matter how many times the behavior is repeated. You are predictable and that's not to your credit.
The simple fact is that Russia is responsible for every death in this war, regardless of how it happened.
perfect, as usually: link confirming...nothing.
some sentences below you are writing about Artem Works "situated in the city of Kiev right among civilian houses and business towers" - and that's true. Moreover there are some buildings that could clear identify AW.
On the footage from garbage propaganda channel Anna News there is only one building to see. As far as you have no triangulation of the operator - not a chance to identify place being hit.
There are at least two different videos of Russian Kh-101 hitting the hospital. One a bit clearer, showing rising cloud of smoke and debris after the explosion, and another one where the person filming ducks behind the wall after the explosion. These were both filmed from the buildings behind that blue-green skyscraper, but from different floors and with different zoom settings.
Again I ask my question, what data would it take for you to change your mind? You Ask for more data, But what data would make you change your mind? You didnt answer last time. And yet you happily believe Toms criticism of the Ukrainian claims… that fits with your world view obviously. Well, more data will come, and you will reject it. But you repeatedly Ask of motivation for targetting childrens hospitals. Very simple and to some degree logical: « We will make the whole society surr until you Ask for peace. We will kill all of you unless you submit. And the Western world is powerless/unwilling to really stand up to us.» It is not at all logical to see their motivation.
There is one week point in your reasoning, already proved true is there are idiots in Moscow
Yeah... and, now I've sorted out the stills, and added one of Kh-101s I drew (for my Tu-95MS-profiles, which you know well), and added it to the same still as posted on topwar.ru.
....to show you all, very clearly: it was a Kh-101, no AIM-120/NASAMS.
So, by side the PSU's BS-exaggerations. I'll get back to them: I've promised to do so. But, you guys might all want to start actually thinking objectivelly - instead of guessing and hoping for. Just one generation back, you were experts in that discipline: nowadays you're worse than the X-er generation.
I think a good explanation for the PSU over-claim tendency here is that debris from intercepts still does substantial damage. Just less total and more swiftly repaired than a direct impact from a warhead. AIM-120 warheads make lots of shrapnel and don't penetrate anything. Jets are fragile.
The reason for PSU's tendency to overclaim is the incompetence of specific commanders there.
This Russian strike on Kyiv of yesterday was clear evidence for that. Otherwise, there would have been no 5-7 Kh-101s striking the Artyom Works (alone).
A clue in this regards: since the last year, perhaps 3-4 Kh-101s have managed to penetrate the PSU's air defences of Kyiv - in total. But, now it was 10 or more, while the PSU is claiming all as shot down?
Tom, thank you for posting added photos. Then, to prove me finally wrong, could anyone tell me where the long wings on KH-101 (that stay perpendicular in the middle like on the photos of final dives to Artyom Works) gone on the photo of the missile that hit hospital?
It's not about proving _you_ 'wrong', but about keeping it factual.
The missile is seen from profile. Thus, the wings are very small, barely visible (along the centre of the missile). The Kh-101's wing is rather small in its total surface (as obvious from other photos I've posted).
Thank you. Will take a couple of more looks at video.
My first question regarding the "important external image" would be: have you been on this planet in the last 3 years (or maybe more than 3, if we counted also Syria)? Russians regularly hit civillian targets on purpose; even they admit it, but they always say it was a legit military target for some invented reasons. The second: Russia's external image is important to whom? China maybe, and the Global South, who do not care anyway? Third: who do think is so stupid to buy your propaganda? "Russia doesn't hit civillan targets because its cares about its external image". LOL. But you are a Russian troll, so just ignore my questions.
Пошел на хуй, уибан. Понятно. Ебаный бот, ты смотри тут важничает что то строчит, ракета не наша, противоракета насамс с бч в 20 кг, млять ты шо сука совсем охуел, мы не вооюэм с мирняком, это все не мы, это пво, бла-бла. Тока реальность чуть другая. Хуевые освободители, города в щебень превращают. Сука как тебя пидара еще Том не забанил. Наверное меня забанит, что я матюкаюсь. Но тебе это нужно знать, еще раз вы реальные твари.
Поневоле вспоминается великий русский писатель, уроженец Киева М.А.Булгаков:
"А? Я позавчера спрашиваю эту каналью, доктора Курицького, он, извольте ли видеть, разучился говорить по-русски с ноября прошлого года. Был Курицкий, а стал Курицький… Так вот спрашиваю, как по-украински «кот»? Он отвечает «кит». Спрашиваю, «а как кит»? А он остановился, вытаращил глаза и молчит. И теперь не кланяется."
Когда человек с русской фамилией пишет белиберду на мове, это полный гротеск....
Сука свали уже на свои болота, пидар.
Юра, а ты нормально общайся. Не как рагуль, а как обычный образованный украинец (если ты, конечно, не ципсошный тролль). Тут не митинг на майдане, а форум о военных действиях. Общайся спокойно, в чем проблема? Мат и ругань - удел слабых. Ну попала ЗУР в госпиталь, бывает, промахнулась. Если я не прав, докажи ссылками или фото.
На хуй пошел, еще раз. Мне с тобой убийцей вежливо общаться. Фейки создает, что бы создать информационный шум, разные бредовые версии выдвигаете. Сколько вы конченых версий делали по МН17, ты думаешь уже забыли. Тварь попали по больнице, где дети с онгологией лечатся и пишет еще докажи. Почему я должен что то доказывать убийцам и те которые лгут. Приведу топ-10 вашей лжи:
1. Буча (версия кацапии - тела были подкинуты).
2. Удар по жд вокзалу в Краматорске в марте 2022 (Это были Точки-У , тракэктория падения Точек показало что оно прилетело с окупированной части Донецка).
3. Удар по роддому в Мариуполе (кацапы: там был склад Азова)
4. Сброс авиобомбы на Драмтеатр в Мариуполе (кацапы это не мы, это Азов, в итоге весь театр залили бетоном, так еще там какие-то сценки устраивают -тупо ублюдки)
5. Убийство в Оленье военнопленных Азова (кацапы: там Хаймарс, никакого с ООН говняного и красного креста не допустили)
6. Удар Х-22 по ТЦ в Кременчуге.
7. Удар фабами по Эпицентру в Харькове.
8. Удар ракетами по центру в Виннице по дому офицеров. (кацапы: там было собрание наемников)
9. В апреле 2024 удар по психбольнице в Харькове.
10. В июне 2024 удар по госпиталю в Харькове.
11. Подрыв Каховской ГЭС (кацапы это был хаймарс - пиздец)
12. Удар Х-22 по многоэтажке в Днепре.
13. Ил-76 сбитый в Белгородской областе (кацапы: там были военнопленные ВСУ, доказательства - тишина)
14. Сплошные удары фабами по Изюму, Буче, Ирпене, Мариуполь и т.д.
Я уже не привожу, то что вы творите с военнопленными: масовые казни, отрезания голов, а те кто возвращается с вашего ебучего плена, выглядят так как они вернулись с фашисткого концлагеря. И кстати кто тут еще фашисты.
И хорош тут рассказывать, что ви пидары не воююте с мирняком. Вы нация убийц, мародеров, насильников - просто гний.
Юра, надеюсь, что ты просто ципсошный тролль, а не психически больной. Уж больно плохо все с тобою. Рекомендую тебе, храбрец, записаться на фронт, а то каждый день по всей вiльной украине десятки ухилянтов насильно хватают в армию, а тут такой поцтриот на форумах пропадает.....
No idiots in the Kremlin or Genstab? Hah! Watching the map evolve these past 2.5 years is enough to prove their incompetence. They're as bad as the fools who run the Pentagon.
Good grief, even pro-Putin trolls are willing to admit their leaders are morons. The one thing we all have in common, ironically enough.
BBC verify say it was a russian KH-101 cruise missile https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cj7dzr92m17o
That IS their doctrine. Top to bottom: this is the ruscist system. It's simple science.
And we all know how well it went in Great Britain, Germany or Japan...
We can start our analysis with the bombing of Copenhagen (1807)
Sometimes it's necessary to call a spade a spade... but it's depressing how western leaders can't see all that you KEEP pointing out--or purposely don't want to see/do anything about it...
Tom, what do you think about the likelihood of Israel transferring its "old" Patriot systems to Ukraine?
Have addressed this the last week (see: https://xxtomcooperxx.substack.com/p/ukraine-war-27-june-2024-silly-season).
Essentially: it's 0 (in letters: zero).
If Bibi could, it would be negative....
I'll 'never say never', but: alone the fact Bibi is Pudding's business-partner (not to talk about the fact both are pursuant to the same ideology of the rule by oligarchy) is making it near-impossible.
I actually meant negative in a way that Patriots are delivered from Ukraine to Israel.
How accurate are these missiles? Have the Russians demonstrated the ability in the past to precision hit targets with them? My gut tells me russia would like to hit the correct target and they’re fired at the correct coordinates of the Ukrainian HQ but in reality they just land wherever they want in the general vicinity of the target…?
Theoretically they are more then enough accurate to hit such large targets as Artyom Works with 80% of the missiles. Making a rebate to their inclination towards boasting, I've expected to see about 50% of the missiles hit the targets instead of 80%. In practice - as far as I know, the Artyom Works actual workshops, to pick an opportune example, were never hit at least before yesterday. Instead, the Russians damaged the neighboring residential and commercial office buildings (one of them - 2 times), a labor union library, nearby commercial storehouses and a pizza service. I don't know what to think about it.
What also makes me ask myself questions like "WTF?!" is that yesterday strike hit 3 different maternity and children hospitals, wich is quite unlikely if it's an accident.
1/ Artem works were already hit 2-3 times back in 2023. Once causing bad damages. Yesterday it was hit by 1.5 missiles (same as damaged Domino building)
2/ Noway it was an accident - to hit 2 unique hospitals at once. Nearest possible target is Ministry of transport - like 1.0km away from Okhmatdyt. So, even Kh22 would not miss so much, not to talk about Kh101 having hit it.
Artyom Works was hit, yet not it's actual workshops (before yeaterday; I wasn't there for the last days), as far as I know. Some administrative buildings were damaged, yes (the main checkpoint, the labor union library, maybe some other), yet the only damage of the actual workshops I know is several window frames of the highest store of the oldest workshop burned from the nearby hit debris (the missile that hit a new-built residential high-rise on the opposite side of the street).
up to 60% its facilities are situated not on the ground, you know) I have been there many times, so to make AW really unfunctional Ru would need some other staff as Kh101s.
Unfortunately, main hit was too close to Domino building... a friend of mine has/had an apartment there
The majority of the hits you've counted are very likely actually debris - I don't think even these sick sociopathic blockheads would target regular residential buildings with long-range precision missiles. So, the problems are:
1. The lack of long-range SAMs to shot down cruise missiles on their route instead of near the targets.
2. The lack of radars to fill the radar field on these routes and have enough spare radars to switch on while the 1st shift is relocating after being at work and spotted.
3. The lack of anti-drone AD weapons to shot down the Rusian drone spotters.
4. The lack of anti-ballistic missile coverage to ensafe at least some radar positions from the Russian ballistic missile strikes, because these are too fast to relocate the radars in time every day for years.
Ukraine have some means to solve the 3rd problem only. All other aspects need so much money we can hope for foreign military aid only.
There are always something more which can be done. Do more attacks on weapons storages in RU or fabrics. Yes it is not easy.
or for point 2 can be radar put and operate from train and in case of danger train can move fast. I think that before detection and hit you have at least 1-2 minutes and train can move up to 1 km in that time. They just need to find some good railway for it( not offen used).
or maybe it can be done by big trucks.
But without western help point 1 and 4 cannot be solved.
Trains and barges are already in use for these kinds of tasks. The problems are two:
1. The majority of the potential cruise missile routes are never approaching the not-offen-used railways or major rivers suitable for these migratory AD posts.
2. Both these solutions need low terrain, while the AD radars need high terrain instead, to have a decent overlook.
So, both these makeshift solutions are very limited.
And the heavy trucks - yep, possible... with the kind of R&D we have neither money no time for. Long range radars are not that compact to pack on trucks that easy and ready-to-go.
Hitting weapons storages and production centers is not even hard, but plainly impossible as a solution. That is, yes, it's possible to hit one or another such target, yet (currently for Ukraine) it's just impossible to destroy a significant part of these strike capabilities with these means. Ukrainian long-range drones are light and cheap, they cannot carry a powerful warhead of the kind cruise and ballistic missiles are designed for. They are also slow, lightly built (and so have nearly no penetrating capability), easy to shot down, vulnerable to EW, so the only case they are capable of destroying some strike capabilities is when the Russians make a dumb mistake. It happens quite often, yet it's still targets of opportunity, not any kind of systemic strikes.
Thanks for answering. The biggest to do is on west side, but also UA can and must improve what is doing now. Finding opportunities, find long range drone spotters, makes more fake target and less mistake as group on place for longer period. I know it is easy to say and much harder to do.
More AWACS is the only real solution. Unless Ukraine can start hanging balloons with SAR radar capabilities all over the place...
Damn, today my main job is to argue with zombies, trying to convince me that the hospital was hit by Nassam.
It`s crazy how people argue about so obvious thing.
On the other hand the hit on the Artyom Work and the secondary explosion was really made my day black.
Where can i get the text or video from Sergey Markov ?
On his account on Telegram.
" because I know officers of the GenStab in Moscow are reading this blog almost since it came into being". For it's entertainment value, for sure.
Definitely. And as opposed to your blog, which they read.... for what reason again?
Don't have one, never had one, nor the desire to start one. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against them or people who have them.
Even handed castigation of stupidity, incompetence and evil. Can the MSM be inoculated with this antibody?
The choice of targets may have been inspired by the recent ICC indictments.
White Europeans do not understand, unfortunately, who the yellow Muscovites are ((
deepL and google translator will help... ;-) true is first victim of any war... as usual again Ukronaci inside job and false flag...
https://www.infovojna.bz/article/video-ukrajinska-protivzdusna-obrana-zrejme-vyuzila-rusky-utok-na-kyjev-a-zautocila-americkou-raketou-aim-120-na-vlastni-detskou-nemocnici-v-kyjeve
save your time and don't post bullshit here. AIM-120 dooesn't have such power to destroy that and there are videos and ...
Why would you do that?
Did it change anything in Syria or Gaza?
So why should it now?
Did you at least try to zoom-in into some of the footage of the aftermath? For example, the image showing that white ambulance, which obviously wasn't hit by shrapnel from an air defense missile, but rather by bricks or parts of pavement propelled into air by the explosion of a big Russian cruuise missile. Please explain which air defense missile has shrapnell that would leave these dirtmarks https://www.online.ua/static/content/thumbs/1200x630/8/b0/26gtvc---c1200x630x50px50p--1c7a806c2307dcb7abbab29effa59b08.jpg but wouldn't pierce through the skin of the ambulance (just three pieces of debris had the energy to punch through). And the damage on the walls behind the ambulance clearly shows the same pattern.
I have seen several videos and read aprx. dozen articles about this subject with arguments for several versions... But based my experience and trying to use critical thinking, IMHO still believe, that in this case it is ukronaci inside job and pure propaganda, and doesnt matter if it is failure of AIM-120 or intention, doesnt matter. But every body can believe what he wants.. but still it is true, that Russia is aggressor and Ukraine is victim, but not innoccent victim...
Use your experience and critical thinking to explain to us poor inexperienced souls which type of air defense weapon would produce results similar to those seen on the Ohmatdit ambulance I posted. Not just American or Western weapon, feel free to find any kind of air defense missile in any army of the world that would leave such marks on a soft-skinned vehicle. Here's one more image of the same vehicle: https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/d/2/d2ab873-1.jpg
The orcs love attacking hospitals. They've also watched how Israel targets medical facilities to get people to flee a targeted area in Gaza. Same energy. All part of their theory of warfare.
Death to Douchehat and all his modern day disciples. Strategic bombing doesn't work. Never has, and never will. It's an excuse to do harm that feels good and makes the perpetrator look tough. It's the real reason Britain did area bombing in Germany and the USA firebombed Japan. Pure revenge without real military purpose.
Wtf??? Bombing Japan was absolutely the correct decision especially the nuclear bombs. Japan would never surrender otherwise
LOL. Yeah, because the Soviets overruning Manchuria had nothing to do whatsoever with the ultimate decision to surrender. Japan’s Army would never contemplate letting every city in Japan get blown up if it could keep its little fiefdom in Manchuria.
Did you go to school in the USA? It shows in the ignorance of basic historical facts.
What a stupid fairy tale. Japan surrendered just days after the 2nd nuke was dropped. Losing a small portion of their colonial conquests doesn't matter at all compared to their home country getting annihilated. Cant believe you're delusional enough to write this crap
Thanks Tom, and good to point out that whether it's incompetence (I am doubtful in this case) or deliberate, it doesn't ultimately matter - they're putting civilians in harm's way needlessly. And I see that one Mr Kirby has been very quick to reiterate that Kyiv's hands are still tied from preventing this stuff >_<
Nice write up! Ty for the information and the usual truthful sarcasm. Cant wait for you to give a piece of your mind on regards to PSU issues