China imports S-400’s from Russia for itself but exports HQ-9’s to Pakistan and other countries as cheap alternative. India also knocked out 3 out of 6 US made AN-TPS77 radars. US and China made defences were completely ineffective. It just took 3 days for India to prove to the world how unsafe nukes are in Pakistan
Russia has exported S-400 (I) for India which is better than S-400 (K) for China. The one which china received does not have all the features and tech which Russia uses for itself.
Thanks Tom, excellent explanation and details. The "software/tech support Indians":an American comedy term🙂🙂🙂 would make support of the different sourced AD weapons, sensors, ISR, support systems integration childs play of their IACCS.
There is a simple correction regarding what I said firstly it does not seem that the Arab countries and here I am talking about the Gulf countries support India and we have noticed this and this appeared from the insult to the Pakistanis when they received delegations from the Emirates and Saudi Arabia a few days ago. In addition, if we rely on the analysis published by many experts, most of them are biased towards the Indian narrative because of the racist hatred of Muslims, in addition to the fact that they also have hatred for China, and this is according to what I have seen from many analysts. In contrast, I found that most Indian analysts and military experts show in their personal blogs many facts about India’s losses and publish pictures, as India has many internal differences and they are not united in their hatred of Pakistan. Of course, I am talking here about neutral Indian military experts, meaning they analyzed the reality despite India’s success as these mentioned and what you mentioned, but they clarified that India also faced problems that you did not mention, such as the electronic attacks that disrupted electronic systems and the power outage for 500 million Indians that have not returned until this hour, in addition to the loss of 4 Rafale aircraft, as A fourth plane was shot down and India is keeping it a secret, in addition to Mirage 2000, MiG 29, Sukhoi 30, Jaguar, and an early warning aircraft belonging to the Indian Navy, in addition to the destruction of 12 military installations of the Indian forces in the Indian part of Kashmir and others mentioned by these independent and neutral Indian analysts and other things that were not mentioned, including the destruction of an S-400 battery in one of the bases by a Chinese HD-1A missile, in addition to 3 batteries of the Indian Akash air defense system in the Indian part of Kashmir. Pictures of the damage to Pakistani bases. It can be said that it is simple and easy to fix, and not as the Indian army says, which promotes through official radio that it crushed and destroyed all of Pakistan’s air force, air defense, and nuclear weapons. If the Indian army is telling the truth, why doesn’t it occupy Pakistan instead of agreeing to a ceasefire? In the end, much of what is written in blogs is biased towards India and the Indian narrative in an indirect way because these people are afraid of being exposed as mere drummers for the Indian narrative and losing their credibility.
Not sure which Indian analyst claimed all of this. Today, everyone has a mobile camera and everyone has an Internet. Nothing remains hidden. All the military installations have civilian population around them. All these lofty claims of Indian military installations destroyed, S400 and Akash battery destroyed, etc, would have been taken seriously had there been any serious video/photo pointing to the same. There is nothing out there except one video of smoke trail coming from Udhampur Air Force Station where the missile fell on a medical centre compound. On the other side, the moment IAF struck Pak air bases, videos and photos started pouring in from Pakistan. These indications made it clear that something has struck those bases which later verified my not just satellite images from Indian armed forces but also multiple private satellite imaging companies like Maxar, Mazarvision, etc.
500 million living without electricity? When and where did it happen? Do you even know how big is that number 500 million? Who is feeding this non sense?
As, Tom had earlier said there was only one side that was bombing the other side incessantly without facing much resistance. India was that side. Pakistani retaliation was ineffective. Had it been effective, India and its civilian population would have felt the pinch and you would have seen those damages captured in their own cameras. Mind you, people took the claim of Indian aircrafts shot down only when videos of debris started coming in from India. The fact that Pakistan struggles to present undeniable video graphic, photographic, satellite imagery, drone footage, etc evidences to the world shows how hollow their claims are. So called radar signatures shown by Pak are not taken seriously as they can’t be independently verified. India showed similar radar signatures for an F16 shot down in 2019. Guess, how many took it seriously? None. A serious question that must be asked is, how much damage is Pakistan hiding? Like what was there inside those hangars in PAF Bholari, Jacobabad, Murid, Sukkur? Sq. Ldr Usman Yousuf along with the crew died in PAF Bholari along with the destruction of a SAAB Eriye 2000 Awaac aircraft (confirmed by Air Marshal (Retd) Masood Akhtar. How is Pak going to fix that? How many more UCAVs and Fighters were destroyed in those hangars? How is Pak going to fix the destroyed two critical mobile command and control centres based out of Nur Khan? How many died inside it?
Ofc, that doesn't mean it wasn't shot down. Assuming it had crashed, but lacking access to the site, a fake video could have been put out for propaganda purposes to bait the Indian side into engaging on the topic. And on the other hand, if the plane in question hadn't been shot down and was actually produced, it could still be deemed “serial number re-painted” bla bla and the consumers of the propaganda would be none the wiser. Getting the narrative out there first seems to work.
Away from this one specific incident, thank you for your analysis to cut through this fog Tom.
Regarding 'photos/videos of the downed Rafale are fake': I recommend everybody claiming something of that kind, to try drawing a profile of an IAF Rafale.
That would help them promptly figure out: these are genuine, i.e. showing a genuine IAF Rafale wreckage.
Furthermore, other of photos/videos of the same wreckage are showing traces of schrapnel (especially upper portion of afterburner feathers). Combined with the knowledge about how are proximity fuzes of modern-day AAMs (usually) set, that would nicley explain the rest of the story.
I don't think that's a DSI on the JF-17 but rather the cross section of the fuselage after the nosecone snapped off from a Mirage-2000. Indian Mirage-2000 nosecones are painted black as well and the nosecone wreckage I saw looked slimmer and pointier than that of a JF-17. Additionally, the paint scheme on that refueling probe matches what one sees on Indian Mirage-2000s.
Regarding the MICA launch rail, are you sure it's from a Mirage-2000? I believe it was filmed near Bhatinda, and I always assumed it belonged to the crashed Rafale.
Regarding the drone war, in recent years I've been impressed by the foresightedness of the Indian Army in focusing on small UAV warfare - both in acquiring their own loitering munitions of various sizes both indigenous and foreign, and in acquiring a plethora of soft kill and hard kill anti-UAV systems. They're generally slow to modernize but they were admirably proactive in the one area that really mattered.
On the other hand, I had no expectations regarding the IAF's IACCS - of course we knew of its existence and the claims made regarding it, but given the lack of fighter datalinks and lag in investing in AWACS, it was reasonable to doubt that the IAF had been any more successful with their AD datalinks, and it would not have surprised me had the Indian AD systems performed the way Pakistan's did. Happy to see this war proved my doubts were utterly unfounded. The IADS performance truly outstanding and far exceeded what any of us could have reasonably hoped for.
That's the 'problem': since their upgrade to the Mirage 2000I-standard, noses of IAF Mirages are not black (and the radome visible on the photo is not 'black', just 'dark grey'). Their IFR-probes are also installed directly in front of the cockpit, not further down the fuselage. And that's it.
(Drawing colour profiles - like I'm doing by hundreds, for dozens of @War books, every year - helps a lot in this regards. Just like with all the nonsense flying around about 'photos/videos of the downed Rafale are fake'.)
Regarding other topics you've mentioned: think that's covered in the article. Except one thingy: it's obvious the IACCS is far more potent than (widely) assessed, and obviously integrating not only the Indian military-grade GPS-network, but satellite- and UAV-fed.
"While many in India have claimed that this targeted New Delhi, it was intercepted by S-400s over Sirsa (sorry, can’t find the video showing the intercept)"
hi, the chinese bloggers are complaining their edk03 is not given credit. but saab erieye radar is, i checked the pak defence yotube videos. they ewere complaining about zdk03 in 2024 but miraculously started praising them five daysago..the whole thing is asshady as hell...is the zdk03 radar upgraded to something comparable to a erieye. is it the opportunistic ccp trying to pitch it for exports without substance? what is your analysis> i know you mebtioned erieye guided the pl1. the chinese are adamant their zdk03 did
As usual, precise and to the point! I am still in denial over how well our IADS performed!
China imports S-400’s from Russia for itself but exports HQ-9’s to Pakistan and other countries as cheap alternative. India also knocked out 3 out of 6 US made AN-TPS77 radars. US and China made defences were completely ineffective. It just took 3 days for India to prove to the world how unsafe nukes are in Pakistan
China does not have the S400. They had bought the S300
In fact, Chinese have both.)))
They have all three consequent types of export mods of S-300, and S-400 as well.
Though small batch of S-400 just like a small batch of SuperFlankers were bought more for "know how" reasons.
Russia has exported S-400 (I) for India which is better than S-400 (K) for China. The one which china received does not have all the features and tech which Russia uses for itself.
DRDO will also launch its own indigenous ADS soon equivalent to S400 as supplies from war busy Russia are tight
Thanks Tom, excellent explanation and details. The "software/tech support Indians":an American comedy term🙂🙂🙂 would make support of the different sourced AD weapons, sensors, ISR, support systems integration childs play of their IACCS.
Good post. India learned a tad bit too late, this could have been the outcome in the first few hours of the conflict.
A pox on both houses
There is a simple correction regarding what I said firstly it does not seem that the Arab countries and here I am talking about the Gulf countries support India and we have noticed this and this appeared from the insult to the Pakistanis when they received delegations from the Emirates and Saudi Arabia a few days ago. In addition, if we rely on the analysis published by many experts, most of them are biased towards the Indian narrative because of the racist hatred of Muslims, in addition to the fact that they also have hatred for China, and this is according to what I have seen from many analysts. In contrast, I found that most Indian analysts and military experts show in their personal blogs many facts about India’s losses and publish pictures, as India has many internal differences and they are not united in their hatred of Pakistan. Of course, I am talking here about neutral Indian military experts, meaning they analyzed the reality despite India’s success as these mentioned and what you mentioned, but they clarified that India also faced problems that you did not mention, such as the electronic attacks that disrupted electronic systems and the power outage for 500 million Indians that have not returned until this hour, in addition to the loss of 4 Rafale aircraft, as A fourth plane was shot down and India is keeping it a secret, in addition to Mirage 2000, MiG 29, Sukhoi 30, Jaguar, and an early warning aircraft belonging to the Indian Navy, in addition to the destruction of 12 military installations of the Indian forces in the Indian part of Kashmir and others mentioned by these independent and neutral Indian analysts and other things that were not mentioned, including the destruction of an S-400 battery in one of the bases by a Chinese HD-1A missile, in addition to 3 batteries of the Indian Akash air defense system in the Indian part of Kashmir. Pictures of the damage to Pakistani bases. It can be said that it is simple and easy to fix, and not as the Indian army says, which promotes through official radio that it crushed and destroyed all of Pakistan’s air force, air defense, and nuclear weapons. If the Indian army is telling the truth, why doesn’t it occupy Pakistan instead of agreeing to a ceasefire? In the end, much of what is written in blogs is biased towards India and the Indian narrative in an indirect way because these people are afraid of being exposed as mere drummers for the Indian narrative and losing their credibility.
Not sure which Indian analyst claimed all of this. Today, everyone has a mobile camera and everyone has an Internet. Nothing remains hidden. All the military installations have civilian population around them. All these lofty claims of Indian military installations destroyed, S400 and Akash battery destroyed, etc, would have been taken seriously had there been any serious video/photo pointing to the same. There is nothing out there except one video of smoke trail coming from Udhampur Air Force Station where the missile fell on a medical centre compound. On the other side, the moment IAF struck Pak air bases, videos and photos started pouring in from Pakistan. These indications made it clear that something has struck those bases which later verified my not just satellite images from Indian armed forces but also multiple private satellite imaging companies like Maxar, Mazarvision, etc.
500 million living without electricity? When and where did it happen? Do you even know how big is that number 500 million? Who is feeding this non sense?
As, Tom had earlier said there was only one side that was bombing the other side incessantly without facing much resistance. India was that side. Pakistani retaliation was ineffective. Had it been effective, India and its civilian population would have felt the pinch and you would have seen those damages captured in their own cameras. Mind you, people took the claim of Indian aircrafts shot down only when videos of debris started coming in from India. The fact that Pakistan struggles to present undeniable video graphic, photographic, satellite imagery, drone footage, etc evidences to the world shows how hollow their claims are. So called radar signatures shown by Pak are not taken seriously as they can’t be independently verified. India showed similar radar signatures for an F16 shot down in 2019. Guess, how many took it seriously? None. A serious question that must be asked is, how much damage is Pakistan hiding? Like what was there inside those hangars in PAF Bholari, Jacobabad, Murid, Sukkur? Sq. Ldr Usman Yousuf along with the crew died in PAF Bholari along with the destruction of a SAAB Eriye 2000 Awaac aircraft (confirmed by Air Marshal (Retd) Masood Akhtar. How is Pak going to fix that? How many more UCAVs and Fighters were destroyed in those hangars? How is Pak going to fix the destroyed two critical mobile command and control centres based out of Nur Khan? How many died inside it?
FWIW, the visual evidence of the Rafale downing was questioned by this International magazine
https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/awkward-discrepancies-in-indian-rafale-shootdown-image/162926.article
Ofc, that doesn't mean it wasn't shot down. Assuming it had crashed, but lacking access to the site, a fake video could have been put out for propaganda purposes to bait the Indian side into engaging on the topic. And on the other hand, if the plane in question hadn't been shot down and was actually produced, it could still be deemed “serial number re-painted” bla bla and the consumers of the propaganda would be none the wiser. Getting the narrative out there first seems to work.
Away from this one specific incident, thank you for your analysis to cut through this fog Tom.
Regarding 'photos/videos of the downed Rafale are fake': I recommend everybody claiming something of that kind, to try drawing a profile of an IAF Rafale.
That would help them promptly figure out: these are genuine, i.e. showing a genuine IAF Rafale wreckage.
Furthermore, other of photos/videos of the same wreckage are showing traces of schrapnel (especially upper portion of afterburner feathers). Combined with the knowledge about how are proximity fuzes of modern-day AAMs (usually) set, that would nicley explain the rest of the story.
Quibbling with the aircraft losses:
I don't think that's a DSI on the JF-17 but rather the cross section of the fuselage after the nosecone snapped off from a Mirage-2000. Indian Mirage-2000 nosecones are painted black as well and the nosecone wreckage I saw looked slimmer and pointier than that of a JF-17. Additionally, the paint scheme on that refueling probe matches what one sees on Indian Mirage-2000s.
Regarding the MICA launch rail, are you sure it's from a Mirage-2000? I believe it was filmed near Bhatinda, and I always assumed it belonged to the crashed Rafale.
Regarding the drone war, in recent years I've been impressed by the foresightedness of the Indian Army in focusing on small UAV warfare - both in acquiring their own loitering munitions of various sizes both indigenous and foreign, and in acquiring a plethora of soft kill and hard kill anti-UAV systems. They're generally slow to modernize but they were admirably proactive in the one area that really mattered.
On the other hand, I had no expectations regarding the IAF's IACCS - of course we knew of its existence and the claims made regarding it, but given the lack of fighter datalinks and lag in investing in AWACS, it was reasonable to doubt that the IAF had been any more successful with their AD datalinks, and it would not have surprised me had the Indian AD systems performed the way Pakistan's did. Happy to see this war proved my doubts were utterly unfounded. The IADS performance truly outstanding and far exceeded what any of us could have reasonably hoped for.
That's the 'problem': since their upgrade to the Mirage 2000I-standard, noses of IAF Mirages are not black (and the radome visible on the photo is not 'black', just 'dark grey'). Their IFR-probes are also installed directly in front of the cockpit, not further down the fuselage. And that's it.
(Drawing colour profiles - like I'm doing by hundreds, for dozens of @War books, every year - helps a lot in this regards. Just like with all the nonsense flying around about 'photos/videos of the downed Rafale are fake'.)
Regarding other topics you've mentioned: think that's covered in the article. Except one thingy: it's obvious the IACCS is far more potent than (widely) assessed, and obviously integrating not only the Indian military-grade GPS-network, but satellite- and UAV-fed.
"While many in India have claimed that this targeted New Delhi, it was intercepted by S-400s over Sirsa (sorry, can’t find the video showing the intercept)"
Videos : Time at intercept (12:15 am)
https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1924362988913385757
hi, the chinese bloggers are complaining their edk03 is not given credit. but saab erieye radar is, i checked the pak defence yotube videos. they ewere complaining about zdk03 in 2024 but miraculously started praising them five daysago..the whole thing is asshady as hell...is the zdk03 radar upgraded to something comparable to a erieye. is it the opportunistic ccp trying to pitch it for exports without substance? what is your analysis> i know you mebtioned erieye guided the pl1. the chinese are adamant their zdk03 did