Jun 6, 2023·edited Jun 6, 2023Liked by Sarcastosaurus
I'm pretty sure Russia blew it up because it causes long term damage to Ukraine, which is Putin's ultimate goal. He can't take any more territory, and may well lose more.
So yours is really the Rudolf Hess defence:
"Hitler's enemies hypnotized him to kill his victims."
Modified to:
"Putin's enemies flooded their own fields to spite him."
Problem with your "Argumentation" is that its ignore what does not fit into your narrative "highmarsok" - are you hungarian :) At first Nobody blames Russian out of nothing. All at all it was Russian agression against Ukraine which started all this. Period! And You point aboutshelling the dam "with HIMARS" - do you understant that as in case of Antonovsky bridge, the HIMARS strikes were able at best to puncture the road ower it, not to blown up the bridge. So some mythical "ukraine shelling" could left few scratches here and there.
A Swift update, as you used to do. Thanks for that! I support your opinion that, here in “the West” (sometimes that label make me think about Wyatt Earp, Billy the Kid...) we don’t start to speak about “who may take advantage from that, instead need to think about the ecological consequences (and the civilians maimed or dead as “collateral damage”, being they Russians or Ukrainians), they may last more than the war (because I hope all this may end soon).
Hi Tom, thanks for the update. But I think that your focus on ecology and ecocide in this crime is wrong. With one big disclaimer - unless the NPP nearby is affected. I mean that the water masses will destroy some eco systems - for sure, but others will be created. The dam was not the natural state of the nature there. Anyway, the situation hasn’t been good for ZSU before this crime and now is even worse. Ukraine just needs much more
weapons to overcome an enemy that has for decades prepared to fight the “whole West”.
"I mean that the water masses will destroy some eco systems - for sure, but others will be created. The dam was not the natural state of the nature there.".
Excuse me? This is not a destruction in a remote Pacific island but in the heart of the southern agricultural area in the densely populated region and in the major waterway. As for the "natural state of the nature", It has been there for 70 years.
The Russian Armed Forces are hitting Kherson with artillery, trying to disrupt the evacuation of civilians. Shrapnel wounds were received by two police officers, Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine reports.
It is an awful crime and again exposing the mean mindsets in VSRF but it is just not an ecocide. It is people that are dying not the ecosystem around the delta.
"it is just not an ecocide" - You've already been there and checked it all out? Because Ukrainian ecologists say: " about 1 million people will be left without drinking water supply, a mass plague of fish and birds will begin. This will create a threat to the epidemiological situation in the Black Sea region." and "potential shallowing of the reservoir, which will lead to the destruction of biodiversity not only of the Kahovsky reservoir, but also of the adjacent territories"
... and the ecosystem, with its anymals, plants, insects, has ALREADY been completely destroyed/wiped off by waters and is NOT renewable. And a couple of huge oil & other eco-poisoning reservoirs were spilled and joined the running waters and poisoned soil forever (and eventually will go to the Black sea).
There are videos from satellite photos from a couple of days ago that show the road over the dam was washed away so maybe the dam just collapsed due to lack of Russian maintenance which would be just as bad. It is a major disaster that would never have happened if the Russians had stayed at home.
Seriously, you think Putin cares about anybody living in Ukraine?? Do you seriusly think he's still going to hang on to Crimea?
No part of Russian is being flooded by this. But it will also destroy much of Urkaine's fields, pushing food prices higher, which can only help Russia--until the collapse at least.
This just inflicts some more damage on Ukraine, which is all Putin is interested in by now.
People of Russian ethnicity or with some Russian heritage in Ukraine generally regard themselves as Ukrainians, if they were born and grew up in Ukraine. The whole notion of Russian ethnic minority being some sort of a definable community is fantasy for those who never been to Ukraine. Or that Putin has any affection for any Ukrainian citizen.
Some of them do, some of them not. That doesn’t make them Russians. There are plenty of people from Donbas fighting in AFU.
Ukraine lost to Russia in early 2015, that’s why ceasefire agreements were signed. Popular support for Russia in Donbas was a rather polarizing topic and has nothing to do with ethnicity
I apologize for my English, I used the wrong word expression... we have a proverb that says a woman is like the land (soil, ground), he who works it, to him it belongs... The phrase tillage is a double meaning, in the case of a woman it means loving (sex, fuck), in the case of the earth it means hard manual labor. So, meaning is, it doesnt matter who is king, goverment, occupant, the land/soils belongs to people who work on it... did you catch the point?
No, I do not. You do not own a person for having sex, or by force, and you do not own the land of your neighbour because you broke the fence and you are working it. Your proverb makes no sense to the current situation and anyway its meaning is probably different, emphasising on the bond with a person or the land.
If your partner is having sex with your neighbour, it belong to him, doesnt matter what is in your marriage cerficate... my gradfather survived austrohungary monarchy, first CSR, nazi Slovak State, second CSR, then CSSR, then CSFR and now Slovak republic... but soil who he used to work belong to him always, no matter who was ruling... difference between de iure and de facto...
So back to Ukraine/Russia ... Krym de iure belongs to Ukraine, but de facto to Russia, and nobody cares about desire of citizen of Krym represented by referendum... if you can ocupy and hold/protect neighbour house... it belongs to you....
Maybe you can ask California or Texas people... ;-)
Well, half of Zaporizhzhya (the city) is exactly downstream from *that* dam. Don't know what its population was in 1941, but definitely "too much" (even without counting the soldiers). Especially with no warnings and no Internet.
It's entirely unimportant what do I _think_.
....ah wait: another whataboutist trolling around. Sorry for wasting my time with you....
This is a 'nuclear war' - by other means. Wait to see the consequences.
So what would you propose? Just to give ruzzia what it wants and force Ukraine to acknowledge whatever this merde state asks?
I'm pretty sure Russia blew it up because it causes long term damage to Ukraine, which is Putin's ultimate goal. He can't take any more territory, and may well lose more.
So yours is really the Rudolf Hess defence:
"Hitler's enemies hypnotized him to kill his victims."
Modified to:
"Putin's enemies flooded their own fields to spite him."
Ukraine has no means to blow up the dam. It was built by SU to withstand anything short of nuclear strike.
The installations of this type can only be blown from inside using tons and tons of explosives.
Explosives needs to be placed in specific locations. Only ruzzians had opportunity to do that.
Problem with your "Argumentation" is that its ignore what does not fit into your narrative "highmarsok" - are you hungarian :) At first Nobody blames Russian out of nothing. All at all it was Russian agression against Ukraine which started all this. Period! And You point aboutshelling the dam "with HIMARS" - do you understant that as in case of Antonovsky bridge, the HIMARS strikes were able at best to puncture the road ower it, not to blown up the bridge. So some mythical "ukraine shelling" could left few scratches here and there.
Moreover, sat image shows that part of the dam was intact on June 5. No sign of shelling or anything else.
Am I holding you back from licking Pudding's boots?
A Swift update, as you used to do. Thanks for that! I support your opinion that, here in “the West” (sometimes that label make me think about Wyatt Earp, Billy the Kid...) we don’t start to speak about “who may take advantage from that, instead need to think about the ecological consequences (and the civilians maimed or dead as “collateral damage”, being they Russians or Ukrainians), they may last more than the war (because I hope all this may end soon).
Hi Tom, thanks for the update. But I think that your focus on ecology and ecocide in this crime is wrong. With one big disclaimer - unless the NPP nearby is affected. I mean that the water masses will destroy some eco systems - for sure, but others will be created. The dam was not the natural state of the nature there. Anyway, the situation hasn’t been good for ZSU before this crime and now is even worse. Ukraine just needs much more
weapons to overcome an enemy that has for decades prepared to fight the “whole West”.
.....aha....and it's a sheer accident that this morning the VSRF is shelling Kherson City while the VKS is bombing evacuation routes, too....?
Mate: today I'm 'taking no prisoners'. Whoever wants, can go licking Pudding's boots. I'll certainly not let anybody do so here.
"I mean that the water masses will destroy some eco systems - for sure, but others will be created. The dam was not the natural state of the nature there.".
Excuse me? This is not a destruction in a remote Pacific island but in the heart of the southern agricultural area in the densely populated region and in the major waterway. As for the "natural state of the nature", It has been there for 70 years.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1666001954261159940
The Russian Armed Forces are hitting Kherson with artillery, trying to disrupt the evacuation of civilians. Shrapnel wounds were received by two police officers, Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine reports.
It is an awful crime and again exposing the mean mindsets in VSRF but it is just not an ecocide. It is people that are dying not the ecosystem around the delta.
Yeah: most important issue on hand is to discuss my vocabulary... :rolleyes:
"it is just not an ecocide" - You've already been there and checked it all out? Because Ukrainian ecologists say: " about 1 million people will be left without drinking water supply, a mass plague of fish and birds will begin. This will create a threat to the epidemiological situation in the Black Sea region." and "potential shallowing of the reservoir, which will lead to the destruction of biodiversity not only of the Kahovsky reservoir, but also of the adjacent territories"
... and the ecosystem, with its anymals, plants, insects, has ALREADY been completely destroyed/wiped off by waters and is NOT renewable. And a couple of huge oil & other eco-poisoning reservoirs were spilled and joined the running waters and poisoned soil forever (and eventually will go to the Black sea).
The lesson is: never trust dictators and dictatorship.
If several generations of your ancestors lived in Ukraine, the russians will not be able to surprise you with any type of murders.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941 this also happened in the summer.
Yeah, that fits to Putler's obsession with WWII.
There are videos from satellite photos from a couple of days ago that show the road over the dam was washed away so maybe the dam just collapsed due to lack of Russian maintenance which would be just as bad. It is a major disaster that would never have happened if the Russians had stayed at home.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1665969972349108224
Also a video showing the size of the flooding near the dam
https://twitter.com/i/status/1665907948986458113
Because Russians have risen water level to max before blowing the dam, e.g. see https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1666012180217462785
Here you can see detonations: https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1665963181921927169
Cui bono?
1. NK Dam used to supply citizen of Krym by water by 100% and by electricity by 80%...
2. Left side of river is more shallow/lower than right side, so... 75% damage by water will be done on left side, which is now ocuppied by Russian.
3. Anyway, by blowing up the NKD, IMHO from long term point of view, Russian side will occur more damages than Ukrainian side... so again cui bono?
4. Definitely the loosers are people living in region on both side of river as well as nature at all as during all wars anywhere.
5. Lower lever of Dnipro... what will be impact on Zaporozska Nuclear Plant?
Cui bono????
Seriously, you think Putin cares about anybody living in Ukraine?? Do you seriusly think he's still going to hang on to Crimea?
No part of Russian is being flooded by this. But it will also destroy much of Urkaine's fields, pushing food prices higher, which can only help Russia--until the collapse at least.
This just inflicts some more damage on Ukraine, which is all Putin is interested in by now.
People of Russian ethnicity or with some Russian heritage in Ukraine generally regard themselves as Ukrainians, if they were born and grew up in Ukraine. The whole notion of Russian ethnic minority being some sort of a definable community is fantasy for those who never been to Ukraine. Or that Putin has any affection for any Ukrainian citizen.
Hopefully, we will see it.
Some of them do, some of them not. That doesn’t make them Russians. There are plenty of people from Donbas fighting in AFU.
Ukraine lost to Russia in early 2015, that’s why ceasefire agreements were signed. Popular support for Russia in Donbas was a rather polarizing topic and has nothing to do with ethnicity
Ah, and because there are lots of Russians in Russia - Putin cares about them...?
How sweet....
* Everything below the dam is flooded and turned to swamps with no way to traverse
* Everything above the dam exposes swamps as the water goes down
* The nuclear power plant is in danger, thus they will talk about a ceasefire to fix the dam
This is quite simple - Ukraine has no means to blow up the dam. It was built by SU to withstand anything short of nuclear strike.
The installations of this type can only be blown from inside using tons and tons of explosives.
Explosives needs to be placed in specific locations. Only ruzzians had opportunity to do that.
What 'Russian side'?!?!?
It's UKRAINE on both sides of the Dnipro.
....why am I even trying.... :rolleyes:
de iure ukrainian, de facto russian... land is like woman, who is in control, to thom belongs... ;-)
Oh, really? Do you beat the hell out of your wife? That sounds normal to you?
I apologize for my English, I used the wrong word expression... we have a proverb that says a woman is like the land (soil, ground), he who works it, to him it belongs... The phrase tillage is a double meaning, in the case of a woman it means loving (sex, fuck), in the case of the earth it means hard manual labor. So, meaning is, it doesnt matter who is king, goverment, occupant, the land/soils belongs to people who work on it... did you catch the point?
No, I do not. You do not own a person for having sex, or by force, and you do not own the land of your neighbour because you broke the fence and you are working it. Your proverb makes no sense to the current situation and anyway its meaning is probably different, emphasising on the bond with a person or the land.
If your partner is having sex with your neighbour, it belong to him, doesnt matter what is in your marriage cerficate... my gradfather survived austrohungary monarchy, first CSR, nazi Slovak State, second CSR, then CSSR, then CSFR and now Slovak republic... but soil who he used to work belong to him always, no matter who was ruling... difference between de iure and de facto...
So back to Ukraine/Russia ... Krym de iure belongs to Ukraine, but de facto to Russia, and nobody cares about desire of citizen of Krym represented by referendum... if you can ocupy and hold/protect neighbour house... it belongs to you....
Maybe you can ask California or Texas people... ;-)
Elevation map of the Lower Dnieper River
Hráz - KPD
red and yellow is higher than green and blue...
https://vtm.zive.cz/Client.Gallery/show.aspx?id_file=915708706&article=222601
There are more pictures
Hi Tom. Video from https://t.me/ukrainian_militant/16054 is old. November 2022
Is OK, thx: forgot to remove that link.
They couldn't tell the Russian soldiers to leave, because it would have been clear proof who did it.
So they let them drown.
It would leave witnesses alive.
Sorry, am thick, I guess. Not sure of your point. Unless they were near the dam, Russian soldiers wouldn't know anymore about who did it than us.
If the unit responsible for blowing up the dam is then destroyed by the consequences, there are no witnesses.
We've seen this already with 'little green men' of 2014 being killed in droves in Syria, just for example.
In reality almost ALL russian army already leave the New Kahovka long BEFOR. Just show me 1 tank in New Kahovka drown.
Doesn't take a tank to destroy a dam.
Just explosives.
....including those that are shelling Kherson (city) all the time, Roman?
....and those which the VSRF now must pick up from the trees?
If I am not mistaking, Russians started a partial evacuation of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia already some time ago (April).
"There are no comparisons" - there might be. DniproGES, 1941...
https://www.rferl.org/a/european-remembrance-day-ukraine-little-known-ww2-tragedy/25083847.html
Rumour has it, there are few people more living downstream nowadays than this was the case in 1941....
Well, half of Zaporizhzhya (the city) is exactly downstream from *that* dam. Don't know what its population was in 1941, but definitely "too much" (even without counting the soldiers). Especially with no warnings and no Internet.
"There are no comparisons" - there might be. DniproGES, 1941...