Well the story goes that Voronezh type systems were used to track GPS satellites, and we're providing guidance to Tobol EW in Kaliningrad specifically designed to jam satellites, GPS especially.
And since every starlink uses GPS to position its phased array beams to connect with relevant starlink satellite that move all the time, it was also impacted. So I do not see any contradiction in terms of radio engineer knowledge.
Though the story may be a bit different in reality and I do not think your guess is correct, but who knows. Maybe US officials were as well shocked with strikes on those. We will see what happens next, if those continue now or not, after limited permissions to strike ru assets on their territory is provided.
I would say the most surprising were, though limited, the recent strikes on port oil terminals and infrastructure, or maybe there was none? But it seems that some that kind of targets were hit in Novorossiysk.
I tend to agree that the story does not seem fully plausible, there is a feeling of prefabricated story that was thrown to the media. Though there maybe some elements of truth, maybe many. One thing to note is that in recent interview one well known UA EW specialist mentions starling jamming, but also mentions that there were certain stages in the way it developed, and there were countermeasures applied. But then recently it is again a problem, though not critical and it goes only along the front line. Which does seem to indicate some local things are at play.
But then I can not imagine US is sending any messages to ru, especially with Ukrainian hands. Firstly, US seem to be not capable of doing anything of that (force messaging) recently, secondly there are too many disagreements that UA would volunteer anything like that for US. It rather looks, the other way around, UA prodding US into at least some action.
That's because it doesn't. The jamming is done by "Tobol" EW system. The only problem is that Tobol requires guidance which was/is provided by the Voronezh M radars (probable by tracking the starlink satellites).
could be nonsense, I don't even try to pretent to be an expert in Electronic Warfare. But also here is a link from a 2022 report from the Secure World Foundation https://swfound.org/media/207350/swf_global_counterspace_capabilities_2022_rev2.pdf about the Tobol's capabilities, and yes it seems it is aimed more at GPS than directly starlink but by doing that it disrupts Starlink communications. It mentions also several scientific papers published in relation to this, if you are really interested most probable you can find those as well. So maybe you're just not that well informed about the latest developments in Radio communications.
Thank you for your valuable information as well as for your comments. But bearing in mind that Russia will continue to strike Western Ukraine Swedish help may be of great use.
What you say about Saab ASC 890 looks to be correct, it's only meant to bolster Ukraine's air defence. I read this from an article.
"ASC 890 will provide Ukraine with a new capability against both airborne and maritime targets. Ukraine's capability to identify targets at long range will be strengthened. They will act as a force multiplier with the introduction of F-16," stated Swedish Defense Minister Pal Jonson.
"In the Soviet Union, there were aircraft for radar detection, but when it collapsed, we didn't get such machines. Therefore, we were doomed to monitor the airspace only with the help of ground radars," explains aviation expert Valerii Romanenko.
"With the acquisition of Swedish AWACS, we are practically becoming a country with full-fledged air defense".
Saying the Israelis are responsible for genocide was too much for me. They have been victims for centuries and are surrounded by barbarians who want to murder every Jew. The subscription and reading was entertaining for a while, but I am leaving now to find more sensible writers.
You may not like it but the history of the Israeli state is quite a bit more nuanced than what most of us back in the west have been told all those years.
Learning this is a shock, but honestly? It explains a lot once you learn how things *actually* went.
Robert: YES, the Jewish people have been victimized for centuries. YES the attacks of 07 October were/are HEINOUS. YES too few people talk about how many of the Jewish females who were killed were gang raped regardless of age nor how many we violated after they died.
Oh....and YES Israel is in the process of genocide as much as the Russians are guilty in Ukraine. P.S. just because you ignore the truth in front of you and claim to want to "find more sensible writers" does not mean you will do much more than bury your head in the sand.
Robert, Israel helped create Idi Amin and Obote who killed at least 700,000 of my people. Tell me again how they are a victim if they have no sense of accountability for their actions. Tell me, I'll wait. Or is a Jewish person more human than an African? Its your lack of holding them at least somewhat accountable thats caused so much of the issues in the world.
Help me understand this: because there is no doubt that Jews were terrorised and subjected to genocides for thousands of years - it is entirely out of question that those of them following the ideology of Zionism are genociding native Palestinian population, because that's the very essence of the Zionist ideology (and that supported by non-Jews that are followers of the Zionist ideology, too)?
You are describing the Saab 340, airborne radar only, as it was as originally built. It has since been upgraded quite a lot and is now much more like a mini-AWACS.
I guess Sweden just realized everybody else is clearing their basement of old trash they're not using and decided to get on that train. At least it seems having a bit of help in defending Western Ukraine is better than nothing.
At the risk of appearing stupid, two wonderings. Biden urging UA to not attack RU refineries as it may lead to higher gas prices and loss of votes in November and contributing to genocide of Palestinians rather than getting tough with Netanyahu and risk Jewish vote, also in November.
Also a belief I have expressed for sometime on X that my country (US) due to cowardly restrictions on use of weapons given on military targets in RU, is guilty of complicity in genocide and in Palestine as well. And yes, I know US does not acknowledge the authority of ICC but I wish they would at least wipe that pathetic charge us and maybe wipe that 'Are we not your very best friends depraved smile' off Biden's bloody face. And in case u may misconstrue, am a Jeffries for prez demo & yes I know he is not running damn it. Mike Jackson
Thank for report. Allowance to use himars and artillery near Kharkiv on Russian territory is anyway better than nothing. I have the question about r 37. What the difference between it's launch from mig 31 and su 35, for example? And is range of r 37 320 km? And if yes, is it range for mig 31 or for su 35/30 too? Because if it only fit mig 31, it can still work in 230 km on from front somewhere on South to warn Patriots and f 16 about su 34 and 35, whereas migs 31 can be targeted with Atacams when they are based in Crimea( as that 2 migs few weeks ago) . In combination with unexpected deployment it could work, but seems it would be too risky? Thirdly, how far the plane can potentially detect drones like Zala and Orlan?
The difference is that MiG-31 can fly higher and faster than Su-35.
Flying higher and faster means that it can deploy the R-37 over longer range. That's so because when it's fired from a higher- and faster-flying aircraft, the R-37 needs less energy to accelerate and climb (it's flying along ballistic trajectory).
Thanks for another great article, Tom. I’d like to hear more about how Taliban blew up Pakistanis AWACS planes. Sounds like a very interesting story. Not sure if it’s talked about in any of your books. Thanks again.
At dawn of 16 August 2012, 9 Taliban assaulted the Minhas AB in Pakistan. They killed two guards and then blew up one and damaged two (out of a total of four) Saab 2000 Erieyes - before being overpowered (AFAIK, 8 were killed in exchanges of fire, one blew up himself).
Subsequently, the Taliban announced they have launched this attack as revenge for killing of one of their commanders, and for the killing of OBL - by the USA.... while Pakistan not only had to order three additional Saab 2000s Erieyes, but also had to pay for repairs of the two damaged examples.
Tom, thanks for this report. In the first part I have a tear running down remembering that the previous argentine government, which has been very awful at the point that lost the elections against that... crazy bunch that are now in the government, had been clever enough to make the US and Great Britain anxious about buying chinese planes so they offered the planes that the argentine air force have been looking for since 1995... And this government throwed that by the window and Buy the F-16 without the armament package, because they "are aligned to the USA"... So our biggest commercial partner, China, has cut out the credit lines...
What have no sense to me is all the warmongering that the Baltic states are displaying. Why is all this about? It's not better for them to reequip their military and stop all this nonsense? It's look more than a poker game than geopolítics, but them are playing as teenagers with fake money, not taking things seriously.
Yes, russians are all the time bragging a lot about their superb and invincible S-400, Kinzahls, the mighty T-90, but on the other SIDE, more mundane and serious, really serious things are becaming clear: russians are cleanning (maybe rearranging is a more suitable word) their MoD to sustain a real war economy, their tactics are improving (not at the operational level, but this is a new kind of warfare), their plants are producing equipment for replace front losses and start a small strategic reserve and have secured support from their vulnerable land frontiers (compared with the Cold War when they need to locate extensiva Manpower and resources to deterrence there).
NATO has demilitarized instead, because they have send their bad stored war reserves and surplus to Ukraine where have been Lost, and is not recovering and modernizing their stocks at the same pace as the Russians are putting their T-s tanks at the frontlines. Not Even mention the ammo and missile production.
And another big question: nuclear deterrence. Are the americans commited to a MAD as were in the Cold War? Are they serious about risk Silicon Valley in trade of Vilnus, or Warsaw?
Are the french, the most mercenary un the west, ready to commit the forcé de frappé for Latvia or Lithuania? What about the Hungarians and Slovaks that are questioning every single thing and extracting own concessions?
And are the people of wéstern europe willing to be conscripted by their governments? Because, like it or not, russians are not having by now problems with manpower. And, neither can assure than NATO brigades can sustain a definitive and deadly mech assault in actual battlefield conditions. And if they get bogged down, were are the trained reserves? They not have even equipment to equip.ot because it was send to UKraine.
He is referring to last weak reports about Baltic states being willing to send troops in Ukraine. Estonia has proclaimed its willingness publicly while the other states are reportedly on the same line privately.
It is a hugely laughable idea given how these states are incapable to send more than 1 to 5 servicemen cosplaying as highly important asset as it happened with nearly all NATO or US coalition operations in the past 20 years. For exemple Estonia sent one dude, yes, one single dude, to participate to the EU Operation Aspides in support of the Israel genocide of Palestinians.
Ok, I've now found an news article on this. "Estonia seriously considering sending troops to Western Ukraine to take on non-combat roles..." To me it sounds more like a diplomatic play to pave the way to unlocking the training of Ukrainian army personnel by Nato instructors inside of Ukraine. I see no issues here.
And if I we're in Baltic states I will espect My MoD and PM to stop chatting in every ocassion about sending NATO troops to Ukraine and start taking measures, setting a three line defense, stock ammo and weapons and creating a air defense net. Not sending weapons to Ukraine.
And if I live in the others NATO countries and one of the PM of this nations try to hot up the things, and they Even not have Army or defenses, I Will at least be a little annoyed.
I think you need to look at the situation at a strategic level. The only realistic possibility of Russia openly invading Nato-protected Baltic states is if Russia wins the Russia-Ukraine war. Russia won't attack if it loses (it would be in internal turmoil in this case) and it wouldn't attack when the war is still going (fighting both Ukraine and Nato at the same time would be suicide). Therefore, by sending weapons to Ukraine (as opposed to keeping them stored at home) the Baltic states actually reduce the likelihood of Russia attacking them and ensure that the weapons are actually used again Russia and not collecting dust somewhere.
The Baltic states are constantly being accused by Russia of persecuting Russian "compatriots abroad" - something that Russia used as an excuse to invade Georgia and Ukraine. Thus they are next on the list. And yes, no matter how they try, they are too small to defend on their own. Thus they are all in helping Ukraine because if Ukraine wins Russia will not have anything to attack them with.
The Baltic states know very well that Putin has the mentality of the school bully. The school bully never goes after the kids that fight back. He goes after the kids that fear him, as they are easy victims and beating them up will increase his power and scare the rest.
And really, are we still discussing how "Russia hasn't gotten serious yet, just wait and see"? We've waited... and waited... and waited... This is all Russia's got.
Why?
Well the story goes that Voronezh type systems were used to track GPS satellites, and we're providing guidance to Tobol EW in Kaliningrad specifically designed to jam satellites, GPS especially.
And since every starlink uses GPS to position its phased array beams to connect with relevant starlink satellite that move all the time, it was also impacted. So I do not see any contradiction in terms of radio engineer knowledge.
Though the story may be a bit different in reality and I do not think your guess is correct, but who knows. Maybe US officials were as well shocked with strikes on those. We will see what happens next, if those continue now or not, after limited permissions to strike ru assets on their territory is provided.
I would say the most surprising were, though limited, the recent strikes on port oil terminals and infrastructure, or maybe there was none? But it seems that some that kind of targets were hit in Novorossiysk.
I tend to agree that the story does not seem fully plausible, there is a feeling of prefabricated story that was thrown to the media. Though there maybe some elements of truth, maybe many. One thing to note is that in recent interview one well known UA EW specialist mentions starling jamming, but also mentions that there were certain stages in the way it developed, and there were countermeasures applied. But then recently it is again a problem, though not critical and it goes only along the front line. Which does seem to indicate some local things are at play.
But then I can not imagine US is sending any messages to ru, especially with Ukrainian hands. Firstly, US seem to be not capable of doing anything of that (force messaging) recently, secondly there are too many disagreements that UA would volunteer anything like that for US. It rather looks, the other way around, UA prodding US into at least some action.
That's because it doesn't. The jamming is done by "Tobol" EW system. The only problem is that Tobol requires guidance which was/is provided by the Voronezh M radars (probable by tracking the starlink satellites).
could be nonsense, I don't even try to pretent to be an expert in Electronic Warfare. But also here is a link from a 2022 report from the Secure World Foundation https://swfound.org/media/207350/swf_global_counterspace_capabilities_2022_rev2.pdf about the Tobol's capabilities, and yes it seems it is aimed more at GPS than directly starlink but by doing that it disrupts Starlink communications. It mentions also several scientific papers published in relation to this, if you are really interested most probable you can find those as well. So maybe you're just not that well informed about the latest developments in Radio communications.
This would also explain why the radars that didn't even "looked" in direction of Ukraine were attacked.
I’m wondering whether you wrote this before the announcement from the USA that Ukraine could use their US supplied weapons in the defence of Kharkiv ?
Yesno. Have heard about this with 'defence of Kharkiv' yesterday evening, but: I still find it ridiculous.
It's not like if Ukrainians would as next deploy their ATACMS to strike Pudding in the Kremlin...
Then again...
Thanks, very good info! Especially interesting to me was the Chinese Air Force KJ-200
Thank you very much.
You have to update yourself on the ASC-systerm! / Michael
Thank you for your valuable information as well as for your comments. But bearing in mind that Russia will continue to strike Western Ukraine Swedish help may be of great use.
What you say about Saab ASC 890 looks to be correct, it's only meant to bolster Ukraine's air defence. I read this from an article.
"ASC 890 will provide Ukraine with a new capability against both airborne and maritime targets. Ukraine's capability to identify targets at long range will be strengthened. They will act as a force multiplier with the introduction of F-16," stated Swedish Defense Minister Pal Jonson.
"In the Soviet Union, there were aircraft for radar detection, but when it collapsed, we didn't get such machines. Therefore, we were doomed to monitor the airspace only with the help of ground radars," explains aviation expert Valerii Romanenko.
"With the acquisition of Swedish AWACS, we are practically becoming a country with full-fledged air defense".
"it required additional computers and much bigger power supply to be exploited to its full - than could be packed into this airframe"
Computers now are hundreds to thousands of times as powerful, while using only a tiny fraction of the power they did 30 years ago.
In 1994 you would buy a desktop PC with qa 386 cpu at 33MHz with 4 Mb RAM. Today's equivalent runs at 3 GHz and has 8 Gb - and runs on a tiny battery.
Seems to me, that indeed the task of Saab ACS.890 is to protected western Ukraine only, where F16 would be stationed.
Saying the Israelis are responsible for genocide was too much for me. They have been victims for centuries and are surrounded by barbarians who want to murder every Jew. The subscription and reading was entertaining for a while, but I am leaving now to find more sensible writers.
That's months ago. And true.
You may not like it but the history of the Israeli state is quite a bit more nuanced than what most of us back in the west have been told all those years.
Learning this is a shock, but honestly? It explains a lot once you learn how things *actually* went.
Bye Robert, go to your perfect world where the IDF are still paladins with shiny armour.
IDF are a genocidal organization by now. and this by at least from the second Intifada. And the most nasty of all are the radical israelí settlers.
Robert: YES, the Jewish people have been victimized for centuries. YES the attacks of 07 October were/are HEINOUS. YES too few people talk about how many of the Jewish females who were killed were gang raped regardless of age nor how many we violated after they died.
Oh....and YES Israel is in the process of genocide as much as the Russians are guilty in Ukraine. P.S. just because you ignore the truth in front of you and claim to want to "find more sensible writers" does not mean you will do much more than bury your head in the sand.
Good luck though.
Robert, Israel helped create Idi Amin and Obote who killed at least 700,000 of my people. Tell me again how they are a victim if they have no sense of accountability for their actions. Tell me, I'll wait. Or is a Jewish person more human than an African? Its your lack of holding them at least somewhat accountable thats caused so much of the issues in the world.
Help me understand this: because there is no doubt that Jews were terrorised and subjected to genocides for thousands of years - it is entirely out of question that those of them following the ideology of Zionism are genociding native Palestinian population, because that's the very essence of the Zionist ideology (and that supported by non-Jews that are followers of the Zionist ideology, too)?
Sound logic there....
As my law professor always said: "There is no equality in injustice."
Think about it.
You are describing the Saab 340, airborne radar only, as it was as originally built. It has since been upgraded quite a lot and is now much more like a mini-AWACS.
Yesno. It's still too small for the task on hand. One of results is that it's got too little self-protection equipment.
I guess Sweden just realized everybody else is clearing their basement of old trash they're not using and decided to get on that train. At least it seems having a bit of help in defending Western Ukraine is better than nothing.
Sweden now loses even that capacity they have, until they receive the newer version
Tom
At the risk of appearing stupid, two wonderings. Biden urging UA to not attack RU refineries as it may lead to higher gas prices and loss of votes in November and contributing to genocide of Palestinians rather than getting tough with Netanyahu and risk Jewish vote, also in November.
Also a belief I have expressed for sometime on X that my country (US) due to cowardly restrictions on use of weapons given on military targets in RU, is guilty of complicity in genocide and in Palestine as well. And yes, I know US does not acknowledge the authority of ICC but I wish they would at least wipe that pathetic charge us and maybe wipe that 'Are we not your very best friends depraved smile' off Biden's bloody face. And in case u may misconstrue, am a Jeffries for prez demo & yes I know he is not running damn it. Mike Jackson
Thank for report. Allowance to use himars and artillery near Kharkiv on Russian territory is anyway better than nothing. I have the question about r 37. What the difference between it's launch from mig 31 and su 35, for example? And is range of r 37 320 km? And if yes, is it range for mig 31 or for su 35/30 too? Because if it only fit mig 31, it can still work in 230 km on from front somewhere on South to warn Patriots and f 16 about su 34 and 35, whereas migs 31 can be targeted with Atacams when they are based in Crimea( as that 2 migs few weeks ago) . In combination with unexpected deployment it could work, but seems it would be too risky? Thirdly, how far the plane can potentially detect drones like Zala and Orlan?
The difference is that MiG-31 can fly higher and faster than Su-35.
Flying higher and faster means that it can deploy the R-37 over longer range. That's so because when it's fired from a higher- and faster-flying aircraft, the R-37 needs less energy to accelerate and climb (it's flying along ballistic trajectory).
Thanks for another great article, Tom. I’d like to hear more about how Taliban blew up Pakistanis AWACS planes. Sounds like a very interesting story. Not sure if it’s talked about in any of your books. Thanks again.
At dawn of 16 August 2012, 9 Taliban assaulted the Minhas AB in Pakistan. They killed two guards and then blew up one and damaged two (out of a total of four) Saab 2000 Erieyes - before being overpowered (AFAIK, 8 were killed in exchanges of fire, one blew up himself).
Subsequently, the Taliban announced they have launched this attack as revenge for killing of one of their commanders, and for the killing of OBL - by the USA.... while Pakistan not only had to order three additional Saab 2000s Erieyes, but also had to pay for repairs of the two damaged examples.
Thank you. Again.
I don't think Saab bribed those Taliban to further their business. But it would be genius if they had.
The story about Taliban -ISI - connection fills books.
I remember Benazir Bhutto and her connection to Taliban.
Tom, thanks for this report. In the first part I have a tear running down remembering that the previous argentine government, which has been very awful at the point that lost the elections against that... crazy bunch that are now in the government, had been clever enough to make the US and Great Britain anxious about buying chinese planes so they offered the planes that the argentine air force have been looking for since 1995... And this government throwed that by the window and Buy the F-16 without the armament package, because they "are aligned to the USA"... So our biggest commercial partner, China, has cut out the credit lines...
What have no sense to me is all the warmongering that the Baltic states are displaying. Why is all this about? It's not better for them to reequip their military and stop all this nonsense? It's look more than a poker game than geopolítics, but them are playing as teenagers with fake money, not taking things seriously.
Yes, russians are all the time bragging a lot about their superb and invincible S-400, Kinzahls, the mighty T-90, but on the other SIDE, more mundane and serious, really serious things are becaming clear: russians are cleanning (maybe rearranging is a more suitable word) their MoD to sustain a real war economy, their tactics are improving (not at the operational level, but this is a new kind of warfare), their plants are producing equipment for replace front losses and start a small strategic reserve and have secured support from their vulnerable land frontiers (compared with the Cold War when they need to locate extensiva Manpower and resources to deterrence there).
NATO has demilitarized instead, because they have send their bad stored war reserves and surplus to Ukraine where have been Lost, and is not recovering and modernizing their stocks at the same pace as the Russians are putting their T-s tanks at the frontlines. Not Even mention the ammo and missile production.
And another big question: nuclear deterrence. Are the americans commited to a MAD as were in the Cold War? Are they serious about risk Silicon Valley in trade of Vilnus, or Warsaw?
Are the french, the most mercenary un the west, ready to commit the forcé de frappé for Latvia or Lithuania? What about the Hungarians and Slovaks that are questioning every single thing and extracting own concessions?
And are the people of wéstern europe willing to be conscripted by their governments? Because, like it or not, russians are not having by now problems with manpower. And, neither can assure than NATO brigades can sustain a definitive and deadly mech assault in actual battlefield conditions. And if they get bogged down, were are the trained reserves? They not have even equipment to equip.ot because it was send to UKraine.
Lots to think about.
"warmongering that the Baltic states are displaying" - what do you mean exactly? Any examples?
He is referring to last weak reports about Baltic states being willing to send troops in Ukraine. Estonia has proclaimed its willingness publicly while the other states are reportedly on the same line privately.
It is a hugely laughable idea given how these states are incapable to send more than 1 to 5 servicemen cosplaying as highly important asset as it happened with nearly all NATO or US coalition operations in the past 20 years. For exemple Estonia sent one dude, yes, one single dude, to participate to the EU Operation Aspides in support of the Israel genocide of Palestinians.
Ok, I've now found an news article on this. "Estonia seriously considering sending troops to Western Ukraine to take on non-combat roles..." To me it sounds more like a diplomatic play to pave the way to unlocking the training of Ukrainian army personnel by Nato instructors inside of Ukraine. I see no issues here.
And if I we're in Baltic states I will espect My MoD and PM to stop chatting in every ocassion about sending NATO troops to Ukraine and start taking measures, setting a three line defense, stock ammo and weapons and creating a air defense net. Not sending weapons to Ukraine.
And if I live in the others NATO countries and one of the PM of this nations try to hot up the things, and they Even not have Army or defenses, I Will at least be a little annoyed.
I think you need to look at the situation at a strategic level. The only realistic possibility of Russia openly invading Nato-protected Baltic states is if Russia wins the Russia-Ukraine war. Russia won't attack if it loses (it would be in internal turmoil in this case) and it wouldn't attack when the war is still going (fighting both Ukraine and Nato at the same time would be suicide). Therefore, by sending weapons to Ukraine (as opposed to keeping them stored at home) the Baltic states actually reduce the likelihood of Russia attacking them and ensure that the weapons are actually used again Russia and not collecting dust somewhere.
He is from Argentinia, He has no idea whats going in right now in northeastern europe. How Belorus and Russia are threatening the baltic staates.
The Baltic states are constantly being accused by Russia of persecuting Russian "compatriots abroad" - something that Russia used as an excuse to invade Georgia and Ukraine. Thus they are next on the list. And yes, no matter how they try, they are too small to defend on their own. Thus they are all in helping Ukraine because if Ukraine wins Russia will not have anything to attack them with.
The Baltic states know very well that Putin has the mentality of the school bully. The school bully never goes after the kids that fight back. He goes after the kids that fear him, as they are easy victims and beating them up will increase his power and scare the rest.
And really, are we still discussing how "Russia hasn't gotten serious yet, just wait and see"? We've waited... and waited... and waited... This is all Russia's got.