OK, the LM can turn off even selected single F-35s. Own (those operated by US services) and those of export customers.
Essentially, the LM has the full control over all the software for F-35 (is one of reasons why the jet is that expensive: constant maintenance and upgrades of software, which is so complex that the US government considers it a 'weapons system' on its own). Moreover, the software on export F-35s (except Israel's, of course), is 'dumbed down'.
Means: if Dumpf issues such an order, the LM can literally ground the entire fleet of F-35s exported, for example, the EU-members that are also NATO-members.
F-16s - especially such old examples like F-16AMs - are an exception because they're not as 'smart', as highly developed as F-35s, nor networked by their software.
That said, yes, export customers have the option to disconnect their F-35s from the centralised software system. However, then the jet is also dumbed down: operational, but with much reduced capabilities.
With other words: there's no 'kill switch' - on F-16s. There is something like 'killing you softly, if necessary' - on F-35s.
So Portugal is right to pull the plug on its F-35 purchase, and those countries that have already bought them should embark on a joint-venture R&D programme to replace the software.
Their aircraft may be needed to defend Canada. Or Greenland. Or Panama.
And if they totally lose their minds in DC and try to annex Canada and Greenland, this means NATO's ability to respond with F-35's will be blocked. At least France will be free of this control. Denmark better hold on to some F-16's.
Huh, the new Canadian defence minister is also reconsidering the purchase of F-35s. Some have been paid for already, but the're considering cancelling the rest of the order.
I mean, even if my PC runs Windows I still don't see how it is "leased", when it was me who built it from the separate parts, installed on the resalting machine what I wanted (and have every option to re-install anything I need).
I'm really got to think that maybe take a cheap and good figtherbomber of the 50s/60s, a Mig 17, a Sabré or a Super Sabre, or the Fiat G-51. And fabricante them fir the thousands. Unlicensed copies. Bring the Skyhawk too.
And have them stored and have a nice reserve pilot program.
Now maybe this is not necesary because of drones.
But, in an attrition war, if I can shoot You with a vintage Sabre when your F-35 can't flu, is not a good idea too?
If you do something similar, but keep the human out of the loop... then you get UAVs. ;-)
Let me add that the Russians did consider (seriously) re-opening production lines for MiG-23s and Su-17s. It proved impossible, and the idea was abandoned.
Well, if they can disable John Deere machines remotely to stop the Russians from stealing them, I am sure they can do the same for anything else they sell to the world, especially military equipment.
Part of the infrastructure upgrades required for these are significant connectivity in the hangers to load software and mission profiles. The US could include GPS fences into a upgrade limiting the aircraft sensors outside that fence.
Yes, that's right. But, there's no such thing like 'kill switch for Ukrainian F-16s' (in comparison to modern-day jets, their avionics is 'primitive'), and even disabling 'customer F-35s'... would be an achievement.
Would it be updates for ECM pods on the F-16 that would be vulnerable? Not with a 'kill switch' but with sigint of frequencies to jam? I'm not an expert. Just asking.
The last year or so, it was so that the Ukrainian intel was constantly informing the US intel about what's up with the Russian air defence systems, and the US intel was thus advising USAF people on how to modify ECM-systems of Ukrainian F-16s.
And then, on 7 March, this process stopped. Now it should be back and running.
Thanks for the information. This was basically as expected, no literal kill switch, but the more advanced the weapon the more opportunities for disabling indirectly in oh so many ways. Well, that cat is out of the bag and will not get in. Sad for us Norwegians with F -35, kudos to the Portuguese for not buying it. But I doubt the US arms dealers will sell as much in the future.
Tom: regarding MIM-23 HAWK ADA systems in AmeriDUMP storage..... Was there any talk or discussion going on of getting those to Ukraine before Admiral DUMPFook took over the throne of gawd????
That's right. And UK should do the same. Generally, European countries should finally step up and work together to reduce their reliance on the US as much as possible. And France may help a lot because they prefer their own solutions.
Not sure about Galileo, but the French had to de-Americanise their SCALP-EGs already a few years ago. Moreover, they have sold that weapon to a few of 'undemocratic' countries, so wouldn't be surprised if can operate without the GPS.
GMLRS is manufactured by Lockheed Martin, so Galileo can be used at most as a backup for a heavily jammed GPS. I would assume Galileo would be the main navigation system for the long Neptune.
If I may rant on the decline of the United States tangentially (though directly) related in my mind.
When I was a child I took apart my father's reel-to-reel. Of course, it never worked again. But it gave me a taste of DIY long before we had that word. A neighbor was into electronics, he could figure out how to fix things. Part of American culture WAS fixing things, inventing things. Anyone working on their car out in the street was an open invitation to start up a conversation, share stories.
Today, even simple common chips are built with serial numbers so you think you can replace that commodity OpAmp on your F-35? Think again.
Even though there are many people, especially Louis Rossman fighting "right to repair", it seldom gets anywhere.
The worst part of it is that it makes us dumb. It creates a path to design by committee. In a real fight how will those F-35s perform? I doubt well. One of the reasons I believe the U.S. let's Israel bomb to sht those trapped Palestinians is that Israel is so deep into shared tech on F-35s, Patriots, etc., that the U.S. has to put "National Interests" (corporate profits) ahead of a "domestic issue."
Like you said, guys in a "black van" will arrive and program in the codes. Do they know how the stuff really works. I bet NOT A CLUE. Is the U.S. fixing problems the equipment is facing now? I bet it's all held up in review and other BS.
Okay, I don't want to spam your page, so rant out ;) The U.S. is in for the Mother of All Wakeup Calls. Boeing is just the beginning.
Ah your story reminds of the beinning of IT in the 90's, when one could put hard drives ito a Compaq server without any problem. Then they came with a Bios update and after that if one used a hard drive without their firmware one would get an error message during boot up which needed to press F1 to finish the boot process.
HAHA! Yes, those were the days ;) I remember soldiering in 16MB of replacement RAM into a Compaq just to see if I could fix it!. I often get calls from friends, "can you fix my computer." I say, "your kids must know more than me." And the reply "You'd be surprised." I bet the level of technical knowledge among young Ukrainians is WAY PAST your average American. Necessity is...
Considering Trump's rants about NATO during his first administration, one might have thought that members would have been thinking of 'de-coupling' from, at least the more 'sophisticated,' US weapons systems
It was noted in a column in Haaretz over a year ago that Israel was looking to setup production in Israel of artillery projectiles, bombs, etc. due to Biden's halfhearted delivery slowdowns over concerns on 'excessive collateral damage'in Gaza.
If a 'Most Favored Nation' like Israel sees a need to be able to cut its relieance on American arms then mere 'allies' should be doing so as well.
In Australia the tariffs, abuses, reactions and realisations of the new US administration are running a few weeks behind Europe and Canada. 6 or 7 years ago a French contract to replace the (diesel-electric) submarine fleet was cancelled in favour of a new AUKUS alliance that would instead provide nuclear subs overwhelmingly reliant on US technology and support.
The current question being asked is "will we still get the subs?" because it hasn't yet dawned on the media and population that even if the subs are delivered their operation will depend on the US being a continuously reliable partner.
A lot of people in France are gloating now because Aussies were naive enough to trust Americans to that degree.... And even more are underlining that De Gaulle was absolutely right when he said that we shouldn't trust that the USA strategic interests would always overlap Europe's. Which yielded the only European military that is basically independent from the USA (not 100% but functional enough). Overall we do hope you'll reconsider and hit the donkey of the White House where it hurst most, in the pocket throught the militaro-industrial complex, by cancelling the AUKUS contract and starting all over again (and not necessarily in favour of NavalGroup, as long as it isn't american!)
I think the French are absolutely entitled to be gloating at this moment in history, a moment which they never forgot could happen.
Australia will have a federal election within the next two months, which will determine which direction the country takes for the next few years.
It's a two-party-preferred system; the opposition leader wants to model himself on Trump and make the country a "little brother" to the new US regime, believing he can make Australia so important to Team Trump that the USA's interests will precisely overlap with Australia's. His party (which was the one that broke the French contract for AUKUS, and wants to gut the public service and reduce regulation of large corporations) is already floating ideas like giving away minerals as if that favour that would be appreciated and returned.
The incumbent party has its roots in the labour movement so is naturally inclined to stand against what the US now stands for, but has learned not to stand too strongly against powerful industries and media companies, as doing so has cost them multiple elections. There are signs of a public opinion backlash against Trumpism (American companies are already implementing anti-DEI employment policies in their Australian operations, for example) but the election outcome probably hinges on what those powerful industries and media companies want, not on a sensible debate about Australia's long-term strategic interests.
Good question. I have no 'crystal clear' clarity in this regards, which is why I think this is 'ops-based', or at least depending on whether the unit in question has approach to ATMS' like Kropyva.
If I remember a few years ago the RAF bought a few Chinooks for SOF use but ended up with a pile of helicopters that could not be flown because of an argument over software. Can't remember the ins and outs but it made you think how dependent the UK has become on the US. Which is understandable given the cost overruns on most UK made military procurement.
Well. Most smartphones can be jailbroken. You can even install a hacker-backed OS and forget about Google https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LineageOS
And computers run Linux.
But you cannot reprogram F16.
Of course.
EDIT: scratch everything I've written before.
OK, the LM can turn off even selected single F-35s. Own (those operated by US services) and those of export customers.
Essentially, the LM has the full control over all the software for F-35 (is one of reasons why the jet is that expensive: constant maintenance and upgrades of software, which is so complex that the US government considers it a 'weapons system' on its own). Moreover, the software on export F-35s (except Israel's, of course), is 'dumbed down'.
Means: if Dumpf issues such an order, the LM can literally ground the entire fleet of F-35s exported, for example, the EU-members that are also NATO-members.
F-16s - especially such old examples like F-16AMs - are an exception because they're not as 'smart', as highly developed as F-35s, nor networked by their software.
That said, yes, export customers have the option to disconnect their F-35s from the centralised software system. However, then the jet is also dumbed down: operational, but with much reduced capabilities.
With other words: there's no 'kill switch' - on F-16s. There is something like 'killing you softly, if necessary' - on F-35s.
So Portugal is right to pull the plug on its F-35 purchase, and those countries that have already bought them should embark on a joint-venture R&D programme to replace the software.
Their aircraft may be needed to defend Canada. Or Greenland. Or Panama.
And if they totally lose their minds in DC and try to annex Canada and Greenland, this means NATO's ability to respond with F-35's will be blocked. At least France will be free of this control. Denmark better hold on to some F-16's.
Huh, the new Canadian defence minister is also reconsidering the purchase of F-35s. Some have been paid for already, but the're considering cancelling the rest of the order.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f35-blair-trump-1.7484477
Thanks. Hadn't heard that, but it is hardly surprising.
Does this "total control" apply in the same way to Israel's F-35?
I mean, even if my PC runs Windows I still don't see how it is "leased", when it was me who built it from the separate parts, installed on the resalting machine what I wanted (and have every option to re-install anything I need).
Hi tom, very crear message, good night
I'm really got to think that maybe take a cheap and good figtherbomber of the 50s/60s, a Mig 17, a Sabré or a Super Sabre, or the Fiat G-51. And fabricante them fir the thousands. Unlicensed copies. Bring the Skyhawk too.
And have them stored and have a nice reserve pilot program.
Now maybe this is not necesary because of drones.
But, in an attrition war, if I can shoot You with a vintage Sabre when your F-35 can't flu, is not a good idea too?
If you do something similar, but keep the human out of the loop... then you get UAVs. ;-)
Let me add that the Russians did consider (seriously) re-opening production lines for MiG-23s and Su-17s. It proved impossible, and the idea was abandoned.
Impossible for Russia is not actually "impossible", it often just means "too hard to steal from".
Well, if they can disable John Deere machines remotely to stop the Russians from stealing them, I am sure they can do the same for anything else they sell to the world, especially military equipment.
Part of the infrastructure upgrades required for these are significant connectivity in the hangers to load software and mission profiles. The US could include GPS fences into a upgrade limiting the aircraft sensors outside that fence.
Yes, that's right. But, there's no such thing like 'kill switch for Ukrainian F-16s' (in comparison to modern-day jets, their avionics is 'primitive'), and even disabling 'customer F-35s'... would be an achievement.
Would it be updates for ECM pods on the F-16 that would be vulnerable? Not with a 'kill switch' but with sigint of frequencies to jam? I'm not an expert. Just asking.
Not vulnerable: there are just no updates.
The last year or so, it was so that the Ukrainian intel was constantly informing the US intel about what's up with the Russian air defence systems, and the US intel was thus advising USAF people on how to modify ECM-systems of Ukrainian F-16s.
And then, on 7 March, this process stopped. Now it should be back and running.
"Men in black" entering coordinates into Himars "rockets" is utter & complete BS.
Fire control system is in each vehicle.
All you need to do is enter GPS coordinates of your target, into the fire control system inside the vehicle
US military can also do this via secure link directly from other platforms, but Ukrainians must do that manually.
Yes. Ukrainians have meanwhile figured this out, too.
Thanks for the information. This was basically as expected, no literal kill switch, but the more advanced the weapon the more opportunities for disabling indirectly in oh so many ways. Well, that cat is out of the bag and will not get in. Sad for us Norwegians with F -35, kudos to the Portuguese for not buying it. But I doubt the US arms dealers will sell as much in the future.
Tom: regarding MIM-23 HAWK ADA systems in AmeriDUMP storage..... Was there any talk or discussion going on of getting those to Ukraine before Admiral DUMPFook took over the throne of gawd????
Sorry, don't know.
T'anks.....
"Now, the Storm Shadow is a British product. But, it contains US-made components. So, if the USA say, 'no Storm Shadow to Ukraine' "
So the UK needs to prioritise replacing those components ASAP - Canada might be needing Storm Shadows soon...
Canada should ask France support. As far as I know the french version of storm shadow does not include us components.
That's right. And UK should do the same. Generally, European countries should finally step up and work together to reduce their reliance on the US as much as possible. And France may help a lot because they prefer their own solutions.
What is the dependence of SCALP-EG on GPS? Is it possible to use encrypted Galileo?
Not sure about Galileo, but the French had to de-Americanise their SCALP-EGs already a few years ago. Moreover, they have sold that weapon to a few of 'undemocratic' countries, so wouldn't be surprised if can operate without the GPS.
You mean, US-non-approved undemocratic countries?
US-approved undemocratic countries have no issues to buy or even receive arms for free.
Very recent post hinted at the use of Galileo to guide GMLRS. If true, a technically significant feat.
https://x.com/benabarr/status/1900315250118811921
GMLRS is manufactured by Lockheed Martin, so Galileo can be used at most as a backup for a heavily jammed GPS. I would assume Galileo would be the main navigation system for the long Neptune.
If I may rant on the decline of the United States tangentially (though directly) related in my mind.
When I was a child I took apart my father's reel-to-reel. Of course, it never worked again. But it gave me a taste of DIY long before we had that word. A neighbor was into electronics, he could figure out how to fix things. Part of American culture WAS fixing things, inventing things. Anyone working on their car out in the street was an open invitation to start up a conversation, share stories.
Today, even simple common chips are built with serial numbers so you think you can replace that commodity OpAmp on your F-35? Think again.
Even though there are many people, especially Louis Rossman fighting "right to repair", it seldom gets anywhere.
The worst part of it is that it makes us dumb. It creates a path to design by committee. In a real fight how will those F-35s perform? I doubt well. One of the reasons I believe the U.S. let's Israel bomb to sht those trapped Palestinians is that Israel is so deep into shared tech on F-35s, Patriots, etc., that the U.S. has to put "National Interests" (corporate profits) ahead of a "domestic issue."
Like you said, guys in a "black van" will arrive and program in the codes. Do they know how the stuff really works. I bet NOT A CLUE. Is the U.S. fixing problems the equipment is facing now? I bet it's all held up in review and other BS.
Okay, I don't want to spam your page, so rant out ;) The U.S. is in for the Mother of All Wakeup Calls. Boeing is just the beginning.
Ah your story reminds of the beinning of IT in the 90's, when one could put hard drives ito a Compaq server without any problem. Then they came with a Bios update and after that if one used a hard drive without their firmware one would get an error message during boot up which needed to press F1 to finish the boot process.
HAHA! Yes, those were the days ;) I remember soldiering in 16MB of replacement RAM into a Compaq just to see if I could fix it!. I often get calls from friends, "can you fix my computer." I say, "your kids must know more than me." And the reply "You'd be surprised." I bet the level of technical knowledge among young Ukrainians is WAY PAST your average American. Necessity is...
Considering Trump's rants about NATO during his first administration, one might have thought that members would have been thinking of 'de-coupling' from, at least the more 'sophisticated,' US weapons systems
It was noted in a column in Haaretz over a year ago that Israel was looking to setup production in Israel of artillery projectiles, bombs, etc. due to Biden's halfhearted delivery slowdowns over concerns on 'excessive collateral damage'in Gaza.
If a 'Most Favored Nation' like Israel sees a need to be able to cut its relieance on American arms then mere 'allies' should be doing so as well.
LM's slogan is "We Never Forget Who We Are Working For.". I always thought that somewhat sinister..
In Australia the tariffs, abuses, reactions and realisations of the new US administration are running a few weeks behind Europe and Canada. 6 or 7 years ago a French contract to replace the (diesel-electric) submarine fleet was cancelled in favour of a new AUKUS alliance that would instead provide nuclear subs overwhelmingly reliant on US technology and support.
The current question being asked is "will we still get the subs?" because it hasn't yet dawned on the media and population that even if the subs are delivered their operation will depend on the US being a continuously reliable partner.
A lot of people in France are gloating now because Aussies were naive enough to trust Americans to that degree.... And even more are underlining that De Gaulle was absolutely right when he said that we shouldn't trust that the USA strategic interests would always overlap Europe's. Which yielded the only European military that is basically independent from the USA (not 100% but functional enough). Overall we do hope you'll reconsider and hit the donkey of the White House where it hurst most, in the pocket throught the militaro-industrial complex, by cancelling the AUKUS contract and starting all over again (and not necessarily in favour of NavalGroup, as long as it isn't american!)
I think the French are absolutely entitled to be gloating at this moment in history, a moment which they never forgot could happen.
Australia will have a federal election within the next two months, which will determine which direction the country takes for the next few years.
It's a two-party-preferred system; the opposition leader wants to model himself on Trump and make the country a "little brother" to the new US regime, believing he can make Australia so important to Team Trump that the USA's interests will precisely overlap with Australia's. His party (which was the one that broke the French contract for AUKUS, and wants to gut the public service and reduce regulation of large corporations) is already floating ideas like giving away minerals as if that favour that would be appreciated and returned.
The incumbent party has its roots in the labour movement so is naturally inclined to stand against what the US now stands for, but has learned not to stand too strongly against powerful industries and media companies, as doing so has cost them multiple elections. There are signs of a public opinion backlash against Trumpism (American companies are already implementing anti-DEI employment policies in their Australian operations, for example) but the election outcome probably hinges on what those powerful industries and media companies want, not on a sensible debate about Australia's long-term strategic interests.
Thanks Tom, did Dumpf stop the military grade GPS-service during his last outburst?
Nope, he didn't.
Meanwhile, it's like with StarLink: they BETTER do continue providing the service.
I didn't know Ukraine had access to MIL GPS at all. Its it 24/7, platform-base, ops-based?
Good question. I have no 'crystal clear' clarity in this regards, which is why I think this is 'ops-based', or at least depending on whether the unit in question has approach to ATMS' like Kropyva.
If I remember a few years ago the RAF bought a few Chinooks for SOF use but ended up with a pile of helicopters that could not be flown because of an argument over software. Can't remember the ins and outs but it made you think how dependent the UK has become on the US. Which is understandable given the cost overruns on most UK made military procurement.