Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Oskar Krempl's avatar

Interesting article, now some additional 5 cents from my side:

1) The problem of criminals returning: This is nothing new. That already happened after WWII when MILLIONS of them returned. People like Kopelew and Solzhenitsyn warned of that problem and were kicked out of the communist party. Still it happened and the USSR survived.

2) The longer the war continues the more poverty will rise inside the RF. This is a much bigger problem than in 1945 as most of the population at that time did know only poverty and hardship. Now they did get a taste for a 'normal' life. The elites know that "Gollum" will squeeze them as much as he thinks he has to. So it has to be their goal that the war ends.

3) "Gollum" living in a self created bubble (the usual problem dictators have, as they only accept 'yes sayers') brought himself into an untenable position. Yes he will continue with his obsession to bring back the USSR under a different name, no matter how much it costs OTHERS. No hope that the arse lickers around him will stop him.

4) The RF has to lose otherwise the problem for the world will only get bigger, because that 'cancer' is still growing. The nuclear arms race has started and the longer some idiots are willing to benfit an aggressor the more this planet will become an insecure place.

Nameless One's avatar

What a load of bullshit. This whole post is prime example of West's projections and wishful thinking. This whole "people will revolt", "Russian elites are not interested in the war" and "economy will collapse soon" just keeps going all since the beginning of the war.

> A negotiated end—especially one short of clear victory—would raise unavoidable questions: Why the casualties? Why the economic hardship? Why the defacto-mobilization? Why the lies? These questions are manageable during war. They are much less so in peace.

There is no one worth considering who will ask these questions. In fact, these questions are being asked every day with exactly zero effect (apart from more people fined or imprisoned). Putin and siloviki who are the actual "elites" know this very well and give exactly zero fucks about such questions.

> Elites are looking for the door.

Would be nice to have a proof of that. "Elites" in Russia can be understood differently depending on the context. There are "economic" elites, sometimes they are also being called "oligarchs" in Western media and then there is "government" ruling the country. The latter are siloviki (effectively former KGB). The economics elites were completely subjugated by them in early-mid 2010s and have near-zero influence on policy and politics.

The economic elites _might_ be looking for the door, but if they are doing so, they are doing it in silence. We do not observe any attempts of exit apart from those that were done in the very beginning of the war and were few. We know that some high-profile managers in several corporations committed exit through the window, so this might be the reason.

The KGB elites, on the other hand, are definitely not looking for any exit. In fact, they are looking the enter even deeper and we observe preparations for prolonged period of eternal war: implementation of total control over internet, banking system, surveillance state, censorship, limitation of economic mobility, propaganda in education and making the education system less accessible overall, economy mobilization, etc.

> Putin and the elites are scared to bring home a war-torn, abused, and lied-to army.

No they are not. A bunch of traumatized alcoholics only are problem for the regular people in their immediate surroundings. At worst, they are _maybe_ capable of organizing into gangs to extort local business for money. In reality, this will likely happen, but the gangs will be controlled by the KGB. Again, not an issue for neither Putin nor Russian "elites".

In Russia the army is not represented in politics and the government for exactly the reason described in the post - that would be a threat to those in power. This approach was started by Stalin after the end of WW2 and has been successfully carried over to the present. That time Zhukov and the army were a legitimate political threat, modern army returning from Urkaine is not. And the army of then was successfully neutralized there is zero doubts that this one will be as well.

> The Russian military—despite catastrophic losses—is lionized by Russian society. Soldiers are portrayed as heroes defending the nation against the West.

No they are not outside of the most blatant state propaganda. Russian society is split approximately 20% - 60% - 20% on the spectrum of strongly support the war - don't care - strongly oppose. Only the first 20% "lionize" the soldiers. The rest is either afraid of them or hates them. There is zero moral authority in people killing other people for money, which how they are perceived by the majority.

And so on and so forth. The KGB is totally fine with current state of affairs. There is no danger to them in the near and mid term. Worsening economy is no problem for them. Maybe in the long run (in 10+ years) if things will continue as they are, it will lead to a system collapse, but there is always a space for manoeuvre and controlled exit (simplifying things: we will stop the war/harassing you - you will left the sanctions and the money will start flowing in again). Since the West doesn't have resolve to actually push the system to the brink, and the KGB knows that, they are free to continue as long as they please because they know they can exit any time if it will become to dangerous, and there will be no recourse of consequences for them.

EDIT: the above doesn't mean that Russia will continue to fight untill the last soldier on either side is capable of holding a rifle. Putin and the KGB might decide that it's enough and wrap it up. But this will not be because they are afraid of consequences, face domestic revolt or want to leave the economy in at least a decent shape. This will be because for some reason they concluded that it's better to stop but these reasons have very little to do with described (non-)factors.

133 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?